Pony bottle .. do i need one at this point ?

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I am a police officer, a street cop. Like diving, mine is an equipment dependant profession (guns, radios, flashlights, computers, handcuffs and other restraints, bullet proof vests, and lots of other stuff). Also like diving, I don’t have to use my equipment to save my life in an emergency every time I go to work. But every once in a while I do and when that happens, I want the stuff to work. I also know, as many of you do, that all equipment will likely fail at some time or another. Flashlights burn out, break, or run out of power, guns fail to function for a variety of reasons and can be taken from you, and even individual bullets are not 100% reliable every single time the trigger is pulled. Murphy’s law prevails. Take it from someone who has met Murphy in person.

What does this have to do with anything? Well I have found that some of the most common arguments against using a pony bottle are also the worst. Telling me that if I use a pony bottle “its a sign of poor gas management or poor buddy skills.” That’s like saying the smaller backup pistol on my ankle and the spare ammo on my belt is a sign of poor ammunition management, poor weapon retention abilities, and poor partner skills. Hell I can always get more ammo or another gun from my partner in an OOA (out of ammo emergency) right? Maybe my spare flashlight is a sign of poor battery management.

Some of you actually suggest brushing up on your skills and forget the backup equipment. After all the pony creates more problems you didn’t have before doesn’t it? Sort of like the problem of pulling my pant leg up to get to the backup gun. I didn’t have that pant leg problem before right?

“So go doubles.” Yeah that would be ok, like carrying two full size .40 caliber Glocks on my belt or two of those powerful long black flashlights cops carry in case one goes out. Effective, but not always ideal.

I have found some really good arguments for carrying fully identical, redundant systems, like doubles, but this poor gas management and buddy skills logic is flawed. I’m going to continue to carry that smaller backup gun just like I’m going to keep packing my 19cf pony. As for the naysayers, tell Murphy I said hi.
 
ZULU6:
That’s like saying the smaller backup pistol on my ankle and the spare ammo on my belt is a sign of poor ...

I don't think that is a fair analogy, I buy the more is better argument but I don't see why you'd want to have a tank small enough to fit on your ankle holster (I'm being liberally facetious here see - > :D ) when you could strapup .44s on both hips, or invest in firepower ala the M-249 which occupies both hands without introducing the bend-over and hike up your pant leg to quick draw on somebody when kaka has hit ze fan to the point you no longer have your primary weapon and are relying on said equipment to halt the forces attempting to end your life.
 
"Murphy’s law prevails. Take it from someone who has met Murphy in person."

Or as I once read it.......Murphy is alive and well, living in my dive bag, and trying to kill me!"
 
Oh it is a fair analogy. As I said, there are good arguments for going double instead of pony and if you do I'm ready to give you thumbs up for being prepared (though like the arsenal you mentioned above, its really not always workable for everyone). But, telling me a pony (or a second full size tank for that matter) is a gas management or skills problem is a no go. That dog just don't hunt.
 
Gabe: I completely agree with the points made above. Pony does not equal bad gas management. I suppose it could be misused, but that's not an argument against the pony in general. People always cite entanglement hazards from back mounting. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but it has been debated ad nauseaum (just run a search). I personally don't see much of a difference in entanglement hazard between a back-mounted pony and doubles. I own a 30CF and I didn't like back-mounting it (couldn't reach the valve, guage, etc.). I rarely use it, but when I do, I sling it. You won't even notice it's there if you sling it right. Doubles do provide better redundancy (i.e. if you had problem with one reg on a doubles set-up, you could shut down the bad "post" and still have access to all of the gas). But doubles aren't well-suited for all dives. For example, I mostly do shallow dives for bugs from a small boat or from shore -- no need for doubles. I only use mine in limited circumstances -- e.g. if I'm traveling and doing deep dives with a rent-a-buddy. I suppose I might whip out the pony if I did some deeper wreck dives around here (just haven't had the chance yet). As for size, I think it matters! Since I would only use one on deeper dives, I wanted enough gas to safely/slowly get me up (this is started to sound dirty). I went with a 30. Some people suggested that I go with a 40, which could be later used as an O2 bottle (I think). If tech diving is in your future, maybe that makes sense? Not sure. I don't have any such ambition so a 30 was fine. I bought mine from diveriteexpress online. It was cheaper than in a store, I liked the finish (stainless) and it had a din valve with a yoke insert (which seems ideal). They also sell a slinging kit for about $30 bucks I think. I bought it, but you can make one for almost nothing...

Happy hunting and take everything with a grain of salt!
 
ZULU6:
Oh it is a fair analogy.

I still disagree, but I'm not making this argument

ZULU6:
But, telling me a pony (or a second full size tank for that matter) is a gas management or skills problem is a no go. That dog just don't hunt.

I'm still hung up on the introduction of the task "hike up pantsleg" when things go south. Whether you use doubles or an H the redundant reg is right there ready when you find yourself in need of a backup air source.

I've seen and carried ponies in varied configurations added to a SCUBA rig, I don't believe carrying one implies anything about your gas management skills or consumption rates, all of the configurations added an additional second stage and an SPG connected by hose. I have seen varying levels of proficiency in managing and effectively utilizing the additional components, to the point I believe it adds to the divers skill set steps I'll call the "Deploy Pony procedure". I don't feel that this procedure is any more demanding than a valve drill, the corresponding procedure in the H or doubles scenario.
 
lord1234:
Pony bottles are a crutch for bad air management. If you need a pony bottle, then why not just switch to doubles and get more gas AND a redundant gas supply all at once...

This is a very stupid response IMHO. A pony bottle is not just a way of extending air, it is a backup in the event your primary air supply system fails for any reason. I've had clogged debris tubes, first stage failures and lesser problems occur that made having a pony bottle in the event of equipment failure a very wise idea.

If your reason for having one is simply to extend bottom time, or to make up for poor gas management, then I might agree with Lord1234. However, having been diving for 45 years and solo diving a good part of that, I would not be without one. Although a 13 cu ft might suffice given your diving depths, if your SAC rate is average or higher then I'd recommend a 19 cu ft pony. That's what I dive with now unless I'm going below 130 ft in which case I look for a 30 cu ft slung along with my 19 cu ft mounted on my primary tank.
 
If redundancy is key, and you have one, two or three valves relying on a single o-ring, then there is no redundancy. When I go with doubles (my AL80's) for OW, they will have two separate valves, and two first stages.

I've got to agree with the posters here who believe the slung pony bottle, for OW divers, is a back-up redundant system. That anyone claims it automatically points toward poor gas management skills is a load of malarkey - if anyone is still claiming that line - approaching the MOF / NMOF craziness that someone tried to instill in new divers years ago (probably because the instructors didn't want students losing their masks in the surf - a valid argument, but not a sign of distress).

Who in the heck wants to be hauling doubles up a rockin' dive-boat ladder when they don't have to? Not this generation of divers, I'll tell ya.

Best,

MD
 

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