Pony bottle .. do i need one at this point ?

[Mr.X]

What the hell do Jersey dive operators know about diving anyway!

I'll bite. Why?

Having dived NJ in the past redundancy is pretty darn important in an activity that principally involves wreck diving and often choppy water. X

 

[BillNH]

Wouldn't a Spare Air setup be a good alternative to carrying a pony, but without the bulk, while providing some sense of security ?

 

[Mr.X]

Wouldn't a Spare Air setup be a good alternative to carrying a pony, but without the bulk, while providing some sense of security ?

SpareAir or H.E.E.D. was designed originally as a helicopter evacuation device for water based scenarios. In the movie 'Perfect Storm' you can see it being used. In reality, these little bottles of emergency air are not enough gas for true diver gas emergencies - especially at depth.

Carrying a slung bailout is pretty easy once you get used to it. Large mounted bottles next to singles often throws balance out of whack.


Where is that Dumpster Diver dude who dumped on NJ boat captains? Grrrrh. X

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Wouldn't a Spare Air setup be a good alternative to carrying a pony, but without the bulk, while providing some sense of security ?

No. It's just another bulk... It doesn't solve anything. You'll have more air available on a freeflowing primary on your way up than in a "Spare Air", and you don't have to switch.

For all purposes of getting a pony, a set of doubles will do the job better, safer and at about the same price with a little planning ahead.

 

[MSilvia]

Wouldn't a Spare Air setup be a good alternative to carrying a pony, but without the bulk, while providing some sense of security ?

It's better than nothing, but not much better. If you calculate your air consumption rates, look at how much you'd use spending a minute or two dealing with a problem at 99 feet and then making a controlled ascent, a Spare Air will likely scare the heck out of you. At about the same cost, why not go with something that will actually do the job well? An AL30 or AL40 will work, and they're suprisingly non-bulky in the water, where they're nearly neutral and (if properly rigged) not in the way at all. Doubles can be a good solution too, but they can be overkill for shore dives. It's a lot of weight and bulk (on land) to haul around if you don't really need all that capacity, so an H-valve is a good alternative for redundant shallow rec diving.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

It's better than nothing, but not much better. If you calculate your air consumption rates, look at how much you'd use spending a minute or two dealing with a problem at 99 feet and then making a controlled ascent, a Spare Air will likely scare the heck out of you. At about the same cost, why not go with something that will actually do the job well? An AL30 or AL40 will work, and they're suprisingly non-bulky in the water, where they're nearly neutral and (if properly rigged) not in the way at all. Doubles can be a good solution too, but they can be overkill for shore dives. It's a lot of weight and bulk (on land) to haul around if you don't really need all that capacity, so an H-valve is a good alternative for redundant shallow rec diving.

Doubles does not mean "capacity". There are small sets of doubles available that are far more comfortable both in the water and on land than any single tank I know.

 

[bjpell]

I guess I should not be surprised being from the north, but no one mentioned ice diving. Doubles is way out of the question when your bottom time is suggested to be 20 minutes or less (per padi if I remember right, class was 2 years ago.) When ice diving we used a 19 cf pony slung under the left arm for the 2 person rope team. Alum 80 was tank of choice and all regs in the group of over 40 people diving were Poseidon Jetstreams or Extremes.

No one had doubles, a few had H valves, but all teams had a slung pony. Anyway, just some food for thought: The Pony tank was always there in a case where a freeze up or free flow was uncontrolable. I personally don't have one but I also dive with my wife and usually not over 100 ft. In Belize the average depth we found to be 80 ft on reef dives and would like to have had a pony, but we were new to diving and didn't have the money. If we continue to dive past 80 ft I will be purchasing a pony system, because my wife/myself is worth way more then any pony system when the feces hits the fan.

 

[Soggy]

Doubles is way out of the question when your bottom time is suggested to be 20 minutes or less.

Why? What does time have to do with it?

Using PADI standards to justify anything is rarely a good idea.

In Belize the average depth we found to be 80 ft on reef dives and would like to have had a pony,

You don't trust that your wife could provide you gas with 100+ ft of visibility or vice-versa?!?

 

[ClassAction]

I'd much rather have an emergency in 100' of vis in warm water, but that doesn't guarantee that no one will panic if the S hits the fan. What if someone goes OOA at 80' just before the two are about to ascend with 1,000 psi left in the only working rig? Assume heavy current, mask blown off, panic, whatever. Having a little extra gas might be helpful. Obviously, you need to decide whether the pros outweigh the cons -- extra air vs. additional cost/inconvenience/entanglement risk. Personally, I think the pony is worth the cost, not really too inconvenient, and not risky (for the type of diving I do).

Another point: If you buy a car with an airbag, does that mean that you don't trust seat belts? Whenever there's a discussion about an additional safety measure (e.g. a pony), it always leads to some implication about the "standard" safety measures (e.g. quality of the buddy or gear) or one's skills (e.g. ability to do an emergency assent, bad gas management). Adding an EXTRA margin of safety has nothing to do with these issues.

 

[Soggy]

What if someone goes OOA at 80' just before the two are about to ascend with 1,000 psi left in the only working rig?

So what? Did you calculate your rock bottom? If you calculated 1000 psi is enough gas for 2 divers both at an elevated breathing rate to make it to the surface, than you are fine. Off the top of my head, I dont think 1000 psi in an al80 is enough gas, but I would not let myself get that low if it isn't. If you plan your dive, which means you know the minimum amount of gas required to ascend two divers with one out of gas, your scenario is not a problem, *especially* in warm, clear water.

Another point: If you buy a car with an airbag, does that mean that you don't trust seat belts?

Yes, it does mean that. I do not trust either one alone to keep my skull from colliding with the dashboard.