Pony bottle .. do i need one at this point ?

[Dive1Dennis]

Pony bottles are a crutch for bad air management. If you need a pony bottle, then why not just switch to doubles and get more gas AND a redundant gas supply all at once...

I am annoyed and insulted by those on this board who insist that just because someone carries a pony, they automatically practice bad gas management. A pony sized to suit one's diving can be a perfectly acceptable means of achieving an independent, redundant air supply, as can doubles or an H-valve. Different strokes.

 

[Web Monkey]

I have been thinking bout adding a pony bottle to my set up.

For those of you that use them what are some of the pros and cons of using one.

I’m still a new diver (about 100 dives). This year I will be taking my AOW and my rescue Classes, and I have been tossing around the idea of a pony set up.

I do ALL of my diving in MA and NH I tend to stay above 100 FT.(due to the fact that I still feel so new)

So my 2nd question would be .. What size pony would be a good size to start with?

Thanks

Gabe

Some people don't like pony bottles for a number of reasons.

Many of the reasons have to do with it being behind you where you can't turn it on or off, check the gauge to see what's in it, untangle it if it gets caught and a number of others.

These can be solved by slinging it in front and having a usable gauge on it.

Others beleive that your buddy should be carrying whatever extra gas you need, or that you should be diving doubles if you need redundancy. While both of these are probably correct, they aren't applicable to all situations. For example if you travel, you are unlikely to find an airline that will accept your tanks, and if you travel alone or get a lot of "boat buddies", you can't count on your buddy to back you up in an emergency, or for that matter even to stick around in an emergency.

Now that all this is out of the way, nobody has ever come up with a valid reason why having an extra 30 Cu Ft of gas with a seperate regulator is a bad thing.

I dive with a 30' pony, slung in frot with a stage-bottle strap and a full-size SPG, on most of the deeper dives. It works well and means that I always know I have enough gas to get me to the surface in an emergency.

That said, I watch my gas like my life depended on it (it does), and have never needed the pony. It does, however make me happy to know I've always got enough gas in an emergency to do a safe ascent (30 Cu Ft will get me to the surface even if I'm breathing heavy).

Ultimately, the decision is yours, but if you decide to get one, make sure the reg is as good or better than your primary and you mount the tank it where you can see it, get to it easily, and turn it on and off. Otherwise you may reach for it some day and discover it's either empty or off or you can't quite find the reg.

Also, don't fill it with Nitrox. When the **** hits the fan is not the time you want to be worrying about if the mix is good for your current depth.

Terry

PS. If you decide to use one, download the emergency.xls spreadsheet here (don't have a link handy). It will help you figure out what size to get based on your intended depth and SAC.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

im goint to have to do some research on the H-vale .... how would an H valve
help with redundancy.. if the first and 2nd stage dumps out ..

An H-valve (or a Y valve) provides redundant access to one gas supply. That's all it does.

If either first, or second stage, goes south you shut it off then switch to the other. This obviously assumes you can reach the valves.

If the tank o-ring blows out, your two regulators are irrelevant; your one gas supply is bubbling out before it gets to the first stages.

Can it happen? Yes.
Has it happened? I personally do not know.

If you want redundant supply then a pony, doubles (with an ISOlator, not crossover), independant doubles or a buddy that you know will always be there when you need gas are the choices.

And "bad gas management" is irrelevant; **it happens. Even to Sheck.

 

[MSilvia]

I personally don't feel I'd want the H valve for OW just for the head-hit factor, but the tank I saw rented might have been aligned up poorly.

It should do any more head-hitting than any other valve... the second first stage should be to the side.

 

[Soggy]

Generally speaking, pony bottles are not a solution to bad gas management, nor does carrying a pony bottle speak to one's abillity to manage their main gas supply. What it does speak to is the quality of or trust in one's buddy skills. For open water, recreational dives, there is no need to have a redundant gas supply *if* you have a competent buddy. I only dive with people that I have the utmost confidence in that won't disappear on me and will always be there if a gas related issue arises. If I *do* dive with someone new, it is in a benign environment where we can evaluate each other without much risk. Some may call this dependence, but those people simply do not understand the nature or strengths of team diving nor a minimalist approach to gear selection.

That being said, if you choose to dive with people you do not trust, you are essentially solo diving and thus, redundancy is a good idea and a pony bottle is one way to accomplish that goal. This can also apply to the traveling solo diver.

However, for a local diver who is regularly diving with the same people over and over again, it is a completely unnecessary piece of gear and is a problem that can be solved by training as a team. If the team is not amiable to that or incapable of improving, or their philosophy differs from yours that fundamentally, you should find new buddies (IMO).

If you are a local diver that feels you still need redundancy and don't need new buddies, a set of doubles with an isolation manifold will serve you better, as the system is simpler, comparable in price, and extensible for the future. In the event of a gas emergency, one regulator can just be shut down while you switch to the other. Another option is an H or Y valve (Y being preferable since it is easier to reach the valves) which is redundant for everything but a rare burst disk or tank oring failure.

If you feel you are incapable of sticking to the limits of your training just because you have more gas on your back, you should probably take up a hobby that requires less discipline or stick to dives in the 30-40 ft or shallower range where NDLs are basically endless.

 

[matt_unique]

I am annoyed and insulted by those on this board who insist that just because someone carries a pony, they automatically practice bad gas management. A pony sized to suit one's diving can be a perfectly acceptable means of achieving an independent, redundant air supply, as can doubles or an H-valve. Different strokes.

Don't sweat it, anyone who says they are used as a crutch for bad gas management have no idea what they are talking about.

All divers unanimously agree that a backup breathing system is a good thing. Some choose to accomplish this through a team, some through doubles, some through a pony, and some through an H or Y valve. You need to choose the system that will work best for your circumstances and preferences.

It does not make sense to wear doubles for an 80' shore dive at Cat for example. It makes much more sense to choose another solution at this site for the obvious reasons from those who are familiar with the climb. A pony is an excellent solution. Rig it clean and practice using it, even if for a couple of breaths at the end of a dive when you're in 15' of water or such.

A few more questions are in order...will you be using the pony for shore dives only or will you also use it for boat dives? The depth and air needs will determine the proper size of course.

--Matt

 

[Gabriel90512]

A few more questions are in order...will you be using the pony for shore dives only or will you also use it for boat dives? The depth and air needs will determine the proper size of course.

--Matt

I would be using if for both shore and boat dives. I’m going to be taking my AOW and my rescue class this summer. I may also be taking the Deep diver class in the fall.

 

[lord1234]

Gabe, if you want to dive this coming weekend/all week, drop me a line, we can talk ponies/other options while on our SI

 

[matt_unique]

I would be using if for both shore and boat dives. I’m going to be taking my AOW and my rescue class this summer. I may also be taking the Deep diver class in the fall.

Well you have the dilemma of weight vs. air capacity to use one tank for both applications. For 100' boat dives for example a 30 or 40cf is ideal. For shallow shore dives you wold be fine with a 13 or 19. Both suggestions are of course based on your SAC rate. You would want to determine your SAC, then calculate gas required using various time/depth scenarios applicable to what you expect to do.

I would suggest a 30 tank as the best fit for both applications.

--Matt

 

[Soggy]

I would suggest a 30 tank as the best fit for both applications.

I agree that a 30 is a good balance between the limited requirements for local shore diving and the greater requirements for local boat diving, but I'd suggest bumping it up to an aluminum 40 cft (it's only a couple lbs different and doesn't impact streamlining really), which can later be used as a deco bottle if Gabriel choose.