Pony bottle 19 vs 30 cf, and clipped on left side of BP/W ?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I wouldn't dive in any gear configuration that required that. Of course, if you have an OOA diver AND a second stage failure with no pony, then you might have to, but that's planning for two simultaneous failures.

Today there is no reason to buddy breathe due to the standard configurations, it was not always so. If things deteriate to buddy breathing there is a good chance one or both divers will not make it as buddy breathing is not just passing a reg back and forth.

Back when I learned the normal configuration was one first stage, one second. Buddy breathing was not an academic discussion, and the training focused on controlling the reg and the victim, as the evolution would be stressful at the least and a disaster at the worse.

I adopted the second second stage because I had experience with buddy breathing with an OOA diver, and because divers were no longer taught to buddy breathe. I only use a single second when I know there is no one else diving the area or am with buddys that I have buddy breathed with prior. It is not that hard if parties have experience and it is not looked at as an emergency.



Bob
 
What benefit is derived from switching regulators?


If you switch, the OOA diver is no longer dependent on his or her physical connection to the rescuer for breathing gas.

If you are the rescuer and you are breathing off of your pony, and the OOA diver is breathing off of your back gas, why wouldn't you just switch? Now you are breathing off your own back gas, and the OOA diver has a pony with gas even if they lose contact with you.
 
If you switch, the OOA diver is no longer dependent on his or her physical connection to the rescuer for breathing gas. I

f you are the rescuer and you are breathing off of your pony, and the OOA diver is breathing off of your back gas, why wouldn't you just switch? Now you are breathing off your own back gas, and the OOA diver has a pony with gas even if they lose contact with you.

I can think of several reason not to complicate the process and just get to the surface ASAP. I would want to have a good reason to take the bone away from the mean dog.

Under your scenario, I guess you are assuming that the pony bottle will be detached and handed to the victim so as to eliminate a physical connection between the victim and rescuer?

I would want to stay with the victim. If I start a rescue in a potentially deadly situation, I would want to see it through all the way to the surface - if practical.

It sounds like you want to hand off the pony bottle. what if the victim floats up too fast, then dumps too much air and then sinks super fast?

If he is separated from you, you could loose them and they will have no ability to use the power inflator to inflate their BC. Then they sink to the bottom and we know that many people forget to use oral infltion of the BC - at the least it adds significantly to task loading in a bad situation.

Under this scenario, they will be using one or two hands to hold the pony bottle, probably one hand holding the regulator in their mouth and then they have to use one hand to hold the second stage and another hand to work the inflator and they are holding the pony bottle between their knees on the bottom while they try to orally inflate a BC after they ran out of air once, then got separated and sunk down alone to the bottom while clutching a pony bottle? I can see lots of ways this ends badly.

Conversely, if I remain in contact with them, I can, to some extent, manage their Bc control errors (by offseting them with my own BC or manipulating theirs) and will always have the ability to use a power inflator.

I'm just not seeing the benefits of this regulator switch (or the assumed separation of the two divers which this presumably facilitates).
 
I can think of several reason not to complicate the process and just get to the surface ASAP. I would want to have a good reason to take the bone away from the mean dog.

Under your scenario, I guess you are assuming that the pony bottle will be detached and handed to the victim so as to eliminate a physical connection between the victim and rescuer?

I would want to stay with the victim. If I start a rescue in a potentially deadly situation, I would want to see it through all the way to the surface - if practical.

It sounds like you want to hand off the pony bottle. what if the victim floats up too fast, then dumps too much air and then sinks super fast?

If he is separated from you, you could loose them and they will have no ability to use the power inflator to inflate their BC. Then they sink to the bottom and we know that many people forget to use oral infltion of the BC - at the least it adds significantly to task loading in a bad situation.

Under this scenario, they will be using one or two hands to hold the pony bottle, probably one hand holding the regulator in their mouth and then they have to use one hand to hold the second stage and another hand to work the inflator and they are holding the pony bottle between their knees on the bottom while they try to orally inflate a BC after they ran out of air once, then got separated and sunk down alone to the bottom while clutching a pony bottle? I can see lots of ways this ends badly.

Conversely, if I remain in contact with them, I can, to some extent, manage their Bc control errors (by offseting them with my own BC or manipulating theirs) and will always have the ability to use a power inflator.

I'm just not seeing the benefits of this regulator switch (or the assumed separation of the two divers which this presumably facilitates).

Sure. Like most diving procedures, there are tradeoffs, and you can always come up with scenarios that favor one or the other. And the decision on how to ascend would be based on a number of things, such as the specifics of who the OOA diver was, what their experience, training, and assessed mental state were at the time of rescue.

However, you are assuming that I was suggesting just handing off the bottle and leaving. I didn't say that. I just meant that if you are ascending it's better if you are on your own back gas.

There is nothing to prevent you from ascending with the OOA diver and doing all of the things that you mention, but a regulator isn't a good means of keeping two divers together. If the OOA diver is breathing off the pony, then no matter what happens he will have gas. If he is breathing off of your short primary hose, then there is a chance that you could get separated (surge, current, panic) and then he would have NO gas. Which is always going to be worse than any of your scenarios.

Finally, there is the possibility that he will become SO panicked that he will put you as the rescuer in danger. And in that case, it might be good to be able to break free without depriving him of his gas supply.

If I was diving OC and had to rescue an OOA diver with only one second stage and one pony bottle, I would do this:

1) Plug my primary into the OOA diver immediately.

2) Deploy my pony and breathe off of that.

3) Once the situation was stabilized, try to get the OOA diver to take the pony regulator

4) Unclip the pony and clip it on to one if his D-rings

5) Make a slow, safe ascent together with a safety stop as planned.
 
The only time I had an OOA situation - I was diving in Martinique and a person not my buddy came to me at 80 feet and tried to grab my reg. This was in the 80's or 90's I dont remember. But I remember we only had one reg on the rig with an SPG - no oct and no pony. She grabbed for my reg and I backed off and gave her the OOA slash across the throat. She shook her head - I took a breath and handed her my reg. She took it for maybe 20 seconds and it seemed like minutes and I remember I wanted it back. Because we were in warm water and down about 80 feet and I knew we had enough air - we swam to look for the DM - we had 80+ foot viz so it was fairly easy to find him close to the anchor. As we swam we shared the primary reg like we were taught - no one paniced and no one bolted to the surface. We were locked together as if it was a training exercise but I do remember thinking my god she is taking a long time giving me back that reg. I swam her over to the DM and he had an octopus which was great - I then finished my dive without my buddy - I have no idea what happened to him.
But that is the only time I had to share air since I learned to dive.
All I can say is I never saw her until she was in my face looking for air - and I like to think I am very situationally aware...
 
No she did not speak english and was avoiding me after that... I assume from embarrassment?
 
I have been told that one of the advantages of the pony is being able to shove it at an OOA diver and be well rid of him or her. However, my life would have to be in severe danger to ever adopt such an approach. My plan has long been to donate my primary, switch to my backup, and get a death grip on the OOA diver and taxi them to the surface. But if they are crazed and panicked then the pony would come into play.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom