Pony bottle 19 vs 30 cf, and clipped on left side of BP/W ?
- Thread starter Roger Hobden
- Start date
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johndiver999
Contributor
I agree with your assertion that donation of the primary is probably the quickest and best first step.
However, the remainder of the comments are hard to reconcile.
Why would you engage in negotiations? What benefit is derived from complicating the situation by engaging in another regulator switch?
If the diver is being responsible, then he should have enough air in each tank to get a diver to the surface. Are you assuming that the primary tank has less volume than the pony at the initiation of the gas donation? Your pony should have enough air to get you to the surface, so why not use it for the intended purpose? I'm struggling to understand your advice.
I would think that removal of the regulator from the victim's mouth has the potential to induce a considerable amount of stress (at a very inopportune time), so the benefit from doing so would have to be considerable to justify "the initiation of negotiations" - rather than the commencement of an immediate ascent.
I’m sure doctormike will explain but I would think that he is assuming a traditional length primary hose which would be very awkward to maintain throughout a safe ascent.
If diving purely solo a backup regulator is certainly optional. But most of my diving is mixed, some buddy, some solo and some somewhere in between. So instead of diving different configurations I use the same setup for all my diving. I’m also ready if for some reason I decide not to use a pony.
johndiver999
Contributor
I was being a bit whimsical with the negotiation thing. The point I was making is that an OOA diver is presumed to be in full panic and needs a working regulator immediately. That’s the idea behind primary donate. I was mainly responding to the idea of giving an OOA diver your pony. Never gonna be as fast as primary donate, no matter how much you practice.
Once you have stabilized the situation, you no longer have an OOA diver. But you do need to ascend safely. Unless the victim is still panicked beyond reason, you can now make some choices, with both of you connected to a gas source.
With standard Hogarthian long hose, primary donate, you (the rescuer) would them be breathing off your backup reg and you could do a normal safe, slow ascent with a safety stop or any necessary deco stops. The pony can stay stowed.
If you have decided that your pony will be your means of donating gas in a rescue and you don’t have a backup second stage, you will now be breathing off your pony. You can either give the (now less panicked) victim your pony and take back your primary, or if they won’t let go of your primary, then you ascend on the pony.
Once you have stabilized the situation, you no longer have an OOA diver. But you do need to ascend safely. Unless the victim is still panicked beyond reason, you can now make some choices, with both of you connected to a gas source.
With standard Hogarthian long hose, primary donate, you (the rescuer) would them be breathing off your backup reg and you could do a normal safe, slow ascent with a safety stop or any necessary deco stops. The pony can stay stowed.
If you have decided that your pony will be your means of donating gas in a rescue and you don’t have a backup second stage, you will now be breathing off your pony. You can either give the (now less panicked) victim your pony and take back your primary, or if they won’t let go of your primary, then you ascend on the pony.
BTW, a pony is not typically used with rescue of another diver in mind. A true pony bottle is not a stage bottle, a bailout bottle or a deco bottle. All four are tanks that are typically slung alongside the diver, but the pony is carried as a means of self rescue in case of catastrophic gas loss (unrecoverable free flow, burst LP hose, etc...)
This has been my mindset.
Bob DBF
Contributor
I wouldn't have been. Part of learning to buddy breathe is how to maintain control of of the regulator and the victim. When one has only one second, your next breath becomes more important over time, and the other diver has your reg.
Few know how much safer divers actually are now with an alternate second being the standard configuration, having never been exposed to buddy breathing training.
Bob
Absolutely. Buddy breathing is a very poor solution to sharing gas, and would only be appropriate if the two of you were sharing one gas source and one regulator. I'm not an instructor, but I don't think that it is even taught any more.
I wouldn't dive in any gear configuration that required that. Of course, if you have an OOA diver AND a second stage failure with no pony, then you might have to, but that's planning for two simultaneous failures.
The OOA diver gets your working primary reg immediately. Then you can take a minute or so to either go on your backup second stage or your pony. Then you ascend. If you were on your pony and the victim was on your only second stage, it might make sense to switch once everyone is breathing well and a bit calmer, but I guess you could also ascend without switching if one or both of you was still panicking.
johndiver999
Contributor
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