Padi's supposed depth limits for new divers

[TwoBitTxn]

Having said that, if someone with 20 or 30 dives who gets a PADI AOW cert who has never dived below 60 feet thinks they are suddenly magically safe at 100 feet, it is crazy.

A deep dive, in excess of 60 feet, is required for AOW. Walter's point was that a single dive below 60 feet doesn't prepare you to go to 100.

TwoBit

 

[stevenschwartz]

OK, you guys are all making me think my 14 year old should not dive at all.....

 

[Don Wray]

OK, you guys are all making me think my 14 year old should not dive at all.....

That's not our intention...Just be informed that it's not the agency that decided the "recommended" limits...it is physician's recommendations.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Open water 1 and 2 are limited to 40 feet. 3 and 4 are limited to 60 feet. I think your statement above is misleading.

TwoBit

What Walter is saying is there are agencies other than PADI that allow 60' dives for all the OW check out dives. Those other agency divers could have met standards and done 4-60' dives, so 70' would not be a stretch for dive 5 (first dive after cert).

 

[fisherdvm]

OK, you guys are all making me think my 14 year old should not dive at all.....

No, I think we were just a little anxious about your disappointment that he will not be allowed to accompany you to an 80 ft dive .... Is he competent enough through his training to realize that Dad is breaking a common sense that most good boat captains will not break - forcing novice diver to accompany experienced divers.

There is a number of reason why this is not good:

1. It screws up a drift dive .... When the mexican DM has to float up an SMB and terminate a dive because of the novice's poor air consumtion.

2. It screws up the group .... When the novice diver can not clear his ear and is holding up the group.

3. It is dangerous - to have novice divers doing a CESA from 80 ft because he failed to check his air.

4. It breaks the rule that resorts have to follow for their liability insurance - you must obey PADI's guideline or your liability insurance is void. It explains why I am qualified to practice family medicine but limit myself to dermatology (my insurance policy said so, unless I am willing to pay an extra $7000 a year for a rider). If a PADI resort knowingly let a jrPADI OW go beyond his certified (but certainly artificial) depth limit, they can chose to not cover him for an accident.

5. Children are not smart enough to know that their parents wants to kill them, so the rule try to bypass their parent's poor judgement.....

 

[TwoBitTxn]

What Walter is saying is there are agencies other than PADI that allow 60' dives for all the OW check out dives. Those other agency divers could have met standards and done 4-60' dives, so 70' would not be a stretch for dive 5 (first dive after cert).

I knew what he was saying, but, to me, the way it was written was misleading. It was too easy to read it as PADI does not allow OW dives to 60.

TwoBit

 

[stevenschwartz]

OK, so hold on - by next summer he will have 20-30 dives at 20-40 feet - that is certainly a novice, but as many as many who do such diving. Will he be the most experienced on the dive boat - not by a long shot. Will he be the least - probably also not by a long shot. PADI wil know nothing of the dives he has done just that he will be a 10 months shy of 15. I am certainly happy to have him take the AOW cert. in Cozumel. Perhaps this will help satisfy both concern and legalities. To be honest regarding concerns 1 and 2 above. At all dive destinations to which I have gone, I have seen far more problem from the obese 50 year old also with 30 dives than the 14 year old with 30 dives. Re 3 - of course - his buddy will be either my wife or myself (other with 18 year old daughter.) That having been said, I have seen a number of dives terminated for this - NEVER because of a younger diver. Re 4 - not sure what the resort will say. Re 5 - you have a darn good point here.

 

[fisherdvm]

You can embolize from less than 10 feet.

TwoBit

You can embolize from less than 5 foot, if you had a chest full of compressed air !!

 

[The Surly Mermaid]

I don't think that is so much the dive certification agencies trying to just make more money(even though that may be some of it) as it is a liability issue. If the agencies certified kids under the age of 14 to go over depths of 60 feet and something happened, then trust me the legal system in the US would find a way to hold the certifying agency accountable. I have dove (or 'dived' for you UK guys out there) with a group that had several kids (not mine) under the age of 14 and while they are competent safe divers in MANY ways, there are areas of skills that I saw lacking (dive planning, air monitoring, surfacing several times during the dive to talk to their sisters who are snorkeling above them). These are things that can mean the difference between a good day diving and a tragic day diving even on a shallow dive, but the risk increases the deeper the dive. Of course not ALL kids have these issues, each kid is different, but the agency has to assume that ALL kids are like this, thus the depth restictions.

In answer to your question about the 2 tank dive. I can only tell you that when we go to Key Largo, and the first dive is the Spiegel Grove my 11 yr old son stays his happy little butt on the boat until the second shallow dive. If the charter is doing 2 deep dives on that trip we will opt out and do something else and catch the afternoon dives. Generally most charters will have at least one trip a day that will do only shallow reefs.

Does it stink that he can't do the deeper dives with us until he is older, or that we sometime don't go diving because of the depths of the planned trip... ABSOLUTELY.... but I'm ok with that. I would rather he have the maturity and experience prior to going on deeper dives.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

4. It breaks the rule that resorts have to follow for their liability insurance - you must obey PADI's guideline or your liability insurance is void.

I'm not buying this. If this is true, why isn't it enforced on a level field. Why will they take a newly certified OW diver to 90 feet?