PADI vs NAUI

[Walter]

Actually, i have read the standards

You might want to read them again.

the two agencies teach the same skills.

They teach some of the same skills.

Off the top of my head, in the entry level class, PADI requires breathing from a free flowing regulator and no mask breathing. NAUI does not. NAUI requires simulated in water rescue breathing and recovery of a simulated unconscious victim from the bottom. PADI does not.

 

[DCBC]

I've taught with both organizations for 17 years. I'm not active with either agency at this time and teach through ACUC, CMAS and DCBC/IMCA, so this is more of a historical difference than a current one.

I believe that the quality of the training delivered to a student is a result of the Instructor more than it is the certification agency the Instructor teaches through (with some exception). That said, I believe that PADI places more restriction on their Instructors.

PADI tells the Instructor what to teach, what to examine on and viola, a certified diver emerges. Although the PADI Instructor can add to the program content, he can't withhold certification if the student fails everything that's added. If they meet minimum standards, they get the card. This is not true with NAUI.

NAUI Instructors are encouraged to teach beyond the minimums. Anything they add is considered on par with NAUI standards. They must ensure that the minimums are met, but can withhold certification until they are satisfied with the divers performance and successful completion of all requirements.

In other words, regardless of the minor differences in the program, PADI Instructors are more limited/restricted than a NAUI counterpart. A PADI Course is what's in the book. NAUI cannot be accurately defined as it's not limited to the standards. A student may learn as much on a PADI program, but they don't have to. With NAUI it's up to the Instructor.

PADI has a superior business model. They are the McDonald's of diver certification. You know what you get anywhere in the world. They have excellent quality control and even the idea of the PIC was in-place in the early 70's. PADI is all about business and making money.

For me, NAUI is about quality. PADI split-up the diver program into tiny pieces that allowed more certifications to be completed to achieve the same goal. More and more, PADI continues to pair down the standards (buddy breathing for example). NAUI's standards have dropped as well. If you're in the same business, it's hard to beat McDonald's. NAUI have been left behind in numbers for this reason.

NAUI is run by its members. PADI is a for-profit corporation that has none. An image is projected that you're part of the PADI organization, but in reality your not. Having a PADI Facility is the same as a Saturn Dealership. If GM wants to cut you off, your out.

I had both a PADI Training Facility and a NAUI Training Center. I was a Course Director with NAUI and a MSDT with PADI. PADI wouldn't allow me to have a 5 Star Facility because I taught other programs. They also wouldn't allow me a certification higher than what I had unless I took the mark of the beast. NAUI on the other hand wasn't concerned about me being an Instructor Examiner with other organizations. With PADI it was about control.

PADI has always had the lowest standards. A PADI OW Course use to be 27 hours minimum, NAUI was either 34 or 35 hours (it has been a few years). The NAUI Instructor course was much more difficult than PADI; again higher standards.

Hope this helps.

 

[101recon]

I certified about 3 months ago with NAUI and I consider myself lucky.I had a very good instructor who covered the majority of "missing skills" often cited in this sort of discussion.We did a lot of things that weren't required to pass the course.There were also 3 divers with various certs from PADI,SDI,TDI,etc who were related to classmates and sat in on classes.We had several discussions about the differences in training and I found all of it to be helpful.

I think it should be noted that while I personally took advantage of such an instructor and learned all I could from him,others in my very same class have a very different attitude towards diving.Even with the same instruction,I have seen a couple of my classmates dive beyond their training and knowledge.

You can blame the instructors or curriculum all you want.There will always be room for improvement by someone's standard.But there is little any of us can do about those who can demonstrate a certain set of skills well enough to get a cert,but is either irresponsible or stupid enough to risk a life for a dive they are not ready for.

I don't have enough bubble time to even pretend to advise anyone about diving,but I have been around long enough to know that whatever the certification,in whatever the venue,some have a better "grasp" than others.Some apply themselves to be safe and competent, while others learn just enough to pass.Some continue to learn, while others were finished when they got their card.This is true with any of the "riskier" recreational activities.

In the last 3 months I've been to all of the local LDS's and met many in the local dive community.The vast majority seem to be safe,competent divers regardless of the certs they have.I have also already seen a few idiots who I will never dive with.I don't know what certs they have,nor do I care.There will always be those who do things contrary to my liking but that doesn't mean I have to dive with them.Poor attitude and lack of personal responsibility has much to do with the quality of diver produced from any course.

I may just be lucky by having a good local diving community,but I find it hard to condemn any diving program for the failures of a "less than avid" student or graduate.There are some bad divers out there,I've seen them already with my own limited experience.You can "require" any skill you wish in order to get the cert,but after that,the diving is done by the individual,not the agency that they were able to get a cert from.

I've yet to hear of any diver who was "forced" to dive with someone they may have had reservations about.The choice was their own.Sure,a lot of expectations,plans,prep,travel,money,or un-planned buddies,may have been involved,but the individual diver makes the choice when submerging.Perhaps getting stuck with a bad diver has more to do with the individual diver than where they received the training.

 

[tomfcrist]

No matter which agencies at this moment for me.
but anyone did it by cross it over from PADI beginner to NAUI professional?
let me know... Thanks

my original cert was PADI, and I crossed over and became a NAUI instructor...Not difficult to do, just have to learn the physics.

 

[tomfcrist]

You might want to read them again.



They teach some of the same skills.

Off the top of my head, in the entry level class, PADI requires breathing from a free flowing regulator and no mask breathing. NAUI does not. NAUI requires simulated in water rescue breathing and recovery of a simulated unconscious victim from the bottom. PADI does not.

Walt,
While i love the fact that you are passionate about your beliefs, realize that standards are standards, and what gets taught is something differant entirely....I teach NAUI, however due to the fact that i can teach my course any which way i please as long as the standards are met, i teach no mask breathing/swimming, free flow, buddy breathing, and alot of other save your own a** type skills from other agencies. In my opinion, if an instructor doesnt teach these things, he/she is nothing but a diploma mill in a sense. The beauty of it is that regardless of my professional affiliations, i can do referal dives from any agency and conduct their checkout dives in OW. Why???????Because the same BASIC standards are universal, Basic being recover a reg, clear your mask, ditch your weights, control bouyancy, etc.....The simulated rescue, no mask breathing, and other like skills, are NOT universal, and NOT a nessecity for a safe dive, however they are nice to know if you find yourself in a sticky situation. A Basic OW cert is nothing more than a liscense to learn, and 90% of divers never go beyond that anyway.

 

[Karel26]

Hey underwatercarr. .

I think it is apersonal choice. . No body can say who the best and not. . I did my ow through PADI and almost went trough NAUI with my aow ( because of my previouse girl and her friend who were a NAUI instructor). . Today i am glad that i still stayed with PADI and didnt went over to NAUI. .

It is true what wood said it is your instructor you choose. . My in structor who did my aow told me the same thing. . He is a PADI and NAUI instructor. .

Live to dive and dive to live. . :burnout:

 

[BDSC]

I just went to the PADI website and read this:

"PADI Divers carry the most respected and sought after scuba credentials in the world. No matter where you choose to dive, your PADI scuba certification card will be recognized and accepted. In fact, on most scuba diving adventures you’ll be surrounded by other PADI Divers who made the same certification choice you did – to train with the world’s largest and most respected scuba diving training organization."

They also claim: "The way the world learns to dive".

So if all of this is true, how can PADI not be better! I mean we're talking about the entire freakin world here folks.

 

[Walter]

Walt,

Who's "Walt?"

While i love the fact that you are passionate about your beliefs, realize that standards are standards, and what gets taught is something differant entirely....

I do understand that what is required by standards and what is taught is not always the same. This particular discussion is about what is required by standards, not about what you add to your class that others may not.

I teach NAUI, however due to the fact that i can teach my course any which way i please as long as the standards are met, i teach no mask breathing/swimming, free flow, buddy breathing, and alot of other save your own a** type skills from other agencies.

NAUI, SEI, and perhaps some other agencies allow us to add requirements to our classes. I take advantage of that freedom, you take advantage of it, and so do many other instructors. PADI and perhaps other agencies allow their instructors to teach additional material, but do not allow them require it. If you were a PADI instructor, you would be allowed to offer additional training, but if your students ignored it, and passed the material required by PADI, you would be required to issue the certification.

In my opinion, if an instructor doesnt teach these things, he/she is nothing but a diploma mill in a sense.

I agree. Many instructors are, in our shared opinion, no more than c-card mills.

The beauty of it is that regardless of my professional affiliations, i can do referal dives from any agency and conduct their checkout dives in OW.

Not exactly true.

Why???????Because the same BASIC standards are universal, Basic being recover a reg, clear your mask, ditch your weights, control bouyancy, etc.....

Some are universal, others aren't.

The simulated rescue, no mask breathing, and other like skills, are NOT universal, and NOT a nessecity for a safe dive,

They are not universal, but they are essential for safe diving.

however they are nice to know if you find yourself in a sticky situation.

Nice to know because they save lives.

A Basic OW cert is nothing more than a liscense to learn, and 90% of divers never go beyond that anyway.

I'm so sick of hearing about that silly "license to learn." According to your statement, people shouldn't be learning about diving until they are certified because certification gives them a license to learn. That's BS. People need to learn before and after they are certified. They don't need a license to learn. They need to learn enough before they are certified to be reasonably safe while diving. In all too many cases, that isn't happening. Too many divers are certified who are ill prepared to dive. "License to learn" is an excuse for piss poor courses.

 

[DCBC]

...So if all of this is true, how can PADI not be better! I mean we're talking about the entire freakin world here folks.

Bigger isn't necessarily better. Because they say such a thing doesn't make it true. I'd encourage you to read my previous response.

As a potential customer, you either don't know what you don't know, or believe the ads. As a diving professional, you should find out.

 

[Karel26]

Exactly BDSC. . Who doesn't want to bepart of the majority? ? I mean if most of the people go through them they must do some thing right. .

Live to dive and live to dive. . . . :burnout: