PADI vs NAUI

[mikemill]

Bigger isn't necessarily better. Because they say such a thing doesn't make it true. I'd encourage you to read my previous response.

As a potential customer, you either don't know what you don't know, or believe the ads. As a diving professional, you should find out.

Your sarcasm detector on the fritz?

 

[DCBC]

Your sarcasm detector on the fritz?

I guess so Mike. It's hard to tell on this thread.

 

[tomfcrist]

Who's "Walt?"

Sorry about that Walter...........

[/QUOTE]I do understand that what is required by standards and what is taught is not always the same. This particular discussion is about what is required by standards, not about what you add to your class that others may not.[/QUOTE]

Upon telling a relative that I just got certified by PADI, they told me that NAUI was better. I'm just wondering if anyone can fill me in on the differences.

Thanks.

This is the original thread my friend, its not standards,it's which is "BETTER", which my original post called BS on....no agency is "Better" than the other.


[/QUOTE]Some are universal, others aren't.[/QUOTE]

Correct, there are alot of agencies that feel they are special, and dont want to join in on an agreement between professionals that allows someone else to supervise your students in OW. What I am refering to is the BIG agencies, PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc.

[/QUOTE]They are not universal, but they are essential for safe diving.[/QUOTE]

Depending on what you refer to as safe. If what you say is true than all PADI divers that die should have their familys sue their instructors for not teaching basic safety.

[/QUOTE]Nice to know because they save lives.[/QUOTE]

None of these skills save lives, as much as help prevent people from freaking out underwater which does save lives......however people die every year diving purely because they freak out.

[/QUOTE] "License to learn" is an excuse for piss poor courses[/QUOTE]

Not so much man......OW divers are limited to certain depths to prevent the unexperianced divers from killig themselves..I understand that there is no SCUBA Police to stop them, but they are told right from the get go not to consider themselves experts...hell neither are we as instructors, I have learned more from students than I ever could have imagined. My course isnt piss poor, and i encourage my students, DM's, AI's and other instructors to chime in if I suck..


I really dont want to keep this up forever, we both have hardline veiws on things, so lets just agree to disagree on some things, and at the same time, i'm sure we are alot alike. Next time you are in VA, hit me up and we'll have a beer after some good diving in OBX.

 

[Walter]

This is the original thread my friend, its not standards,it's which is "BETTER", which my original post called BS on....no agency is "Better" than the other.

Better is an opinion. For someone considering an entry level class, standards is the only way to form an opinion on which is better. For some, the agency with standards that require students to learn more is better. For most, the agency with standards that allow certification the fastest is better.

A much better question is how to find a better class, but that wasn't the question asked here 6 years ago. I've also addressed that issue many, many times, but it is not the question asked here.

What I am refering to is the BIG agencies, PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc.

PADI isn't part of Universal Referral. To handle PADI referrals, you must be a PADI instructor. To handle Univeral Referral referrals, you must take the UR update through your agency. The nature of UR makes that requirement impossible to enforce.

If what you say is true than all PADI divers that die should have their familys sue their instructors for not teaching basic safety.

If what was lacking from the class resulted in their death, either the instructor (if it was left out because of a standards violation) or the agency (if it was left out of the standards) is responsible.

None of these skills save lives, as much as help prevent people from freaking out underwater which does save lives......however people die every year diving purely because they freak out.

Your logic is faulty. Freaking out kills people. These skills help prevent people from freaking out. Therefore these skills do save lives.

lets just agree to disagree

We disagree without an agreement to disagree.

 

[Amphibious]

Exactly BDSC. . Who doesn't want to bepart of the majority? ? I mean if most of the people go through them they must do some thing right. .

Bahhhhh Bahhhhhh


the sheeple have spoken.

 

[Chuck SS]

Interesting that this thread carries on for 24 pages!! On the other hand I have to admit I just read a few of the first pages and then skipped to the end. As I have heard many of the discussion points presented back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. My opinion is that most any of the larger certification groups are just fine and many of the smaller ones but be especially careful when picking an instructor as there is where the rubber meets the road///er water! Get references, talk with ex-students, look at affiliations, etc in other words, use care.

 

[funehiki]

Hello everyone. 1st post. I am a novice resort diver with a PADI AOW that I got 15 years ago but I only dive a couple of days a year in easy warm water with a dm in small group (I have managed to avoid cattle cars) and have about 50 logged dives in total. I have been happy with my PADI courses though I would not hesitate to take classes from any of the well-regarded agencies discussed on SB. I also note that I will not be popular here (given some other recent threads) since I am actually a lawyer (though not PI).

My question relates to the earlier posts in this thread about mandatory passing of students by PADI. A section of the PADI standards was cited for meaning that a PADI instructor must pass someone who could do OW basics even if that person was otherwise unsafe to himself, others or the environment. Is this the common wisdom received at PADI IDC courses? It would seem to me (having not read the standards) that the section quoted is just as easily meant to reinforce one of PADI's commercial restrictions like not being a 5 star resort if you also teach other agencies' classes. My alternative understanding of that passage is that if you advertise a PADI course, you must teach a PADI course and then, if you teach a PADI course and the students pass, you must then give them a PADI c-card (and not one from a differenct agency or store created one that might be cheaper to them or you). Has any instructor who has changed from PADI (since I assume anyone still with PADI won't say) ever actually been told by PADI hq (and not a divestore owner) to certify someone the instructor wasn't happy with?

Thanks to everyone for all the knowledge disseminated here!! In a week of lurking, I have already learned a lot. -- Matt

PS== the quote
Look in General Standards and Proceedures, you'll find in bold, "If you advertise a diver training course as a PADI course, you must conduct it following PADI training standards and issue a PADI certification to all divers who satisfactorily meet the performance requirements."

 

[Walter]

My alternative understanding of that passage is that if you advertise a PADI course, you must teach a PADI course and then, if you teach a PADI course and the students pass, you must then give them a PADI c-card (and not one from a differenct agency or store created one that might be cheaper to them or you).

Honestly, that was exactly how I read that section of the standards. My attorney pointed out to me that it had another meaning as well, that one must issue the certification if performance requirements were satisfactorily met.

After discussing this particular concept with many PADI instructors many, many times over several years, I've discovered that is how they understand it as well. It means three things, the two you brought up and the other as well.

 

[sweatfrog]

A section of the PADI standards was cited for meaning that a PADI instructor must pass someone who could do OW basics even if that person was otherwise unsafe to himself, others or the environment.

The opperative word here is SATISFACTORILY. To answer your question, no prudent Instructor (from any agency) would pass someone who was unsafe to themselves or others.

My alternative understanding of that passage is that if you advertise a PADI course, you must teach a PADI course and then, if you teach a PADI course and the students pass, you must then give them a PADI c-card (and not one from a differenct agency or store created one that might be cheaper to them or you). Has any instructor who has changed from PADI (since I assume anyone still with PADI won't say) ever actually been told by PADI hq (and not a divestore owner) to certify someone the instructor wasn't happy with?

I once had an Instructor finish the last dive and tell the students on our boat they were certified, so they could go out and enjoy a fun dive.

One of the students used up his air and breathed off his buddies (a certified diver) alternate air source, for the remainder of the dive. When he came up, the Instructor came unglued and told the student he wouldn't certify that person unless he did the dives again. He then crossed his name off the student's log book.

The student contacted PADI and QA gave me a call. The person at PADI told me to certify the student or PADI would. Within two weeks the person at PADI was looking for another job.

PADI does attempt to police it's own. If you have a complaint, they need a warm body with a name to start the process rolling.

Look in General Standards and Proceedures, you'll find in bold, "If you advertise a diver training course as a PADI course, you must conduct it following PADI training standards and issue a PADI certification to all divers who satisfactorily meet the performance requirements."

That's the rub. What is advertising? A PADI sign out front of a dive store could be construed as advertising, but once you get inside it's all xyz. People want to bring down the 'King on the Mountain' but until someone builds a better mousetrap, it won't happen. Even then, PADI will make changes allowing them to jump on that bandwagon.

 

[DCBC]

If what was lacking from the class resulted in their death, either the instructor (if it was left out because of a standards violation) or the agency (if it was left out of the standards) is responsible.

In many countries, liability is based upon act or omission. In other words, what was taught, what wasn't taught that should have been, what the instructor did, or failed to do. The former may relate to the agency and the latter to the individual instructor. It may also be held that regardless of what the "standards" of the organization are, that this does not release the instructor from not including anything that s/he should have known to be "reasonable" under the circumstances.