PADI tables finally going away?

[*dave*]

I'm rarely confused, but thanks for the condescending comment.

How does learning to use a VEO250 help me to adjust the PP02 on my Tec2G? It doesn't. In fact, having some knowledge of one computer can put some people at a disadvantage when learning another.

Computers, while having many common functions, typically operate very differently. Push, push and hold, tap, shake, double tap, push this while holding that..... Point being, divers need instruction for the computer they will be diving.

I've been in or around IT since the 70's. Put me on a MAC and I'm mostly lost. It has a keyboard, monitor, HD, memory.... I've been using CAD for decades, put me on a seat of CATIA and I'm lost, despite the fact that it does virtually the same as SWX using the same functions.

We have enough to teach in BOW without watering it down teaching something that has limited application outside the course.

You're confusing the integration of computers while diving with pushing buttons.

Almost all computers have

Alarms
Ascent graphs
Nitrogen Loading graphs
OxTox alarms
Ox Exposure alarms
Dive Planner
Dive Logger

Some even have integrated air.

The PDCs I teach with (Veo250) are very simple to use and my students don't spend much time dealing with the mechanics. My focus is to train them in the use of each of these items. After all, no table comes with alarms or graphs. They can apply what they learn on the Veo250 to any other computer that they might buy.

 

[SkimFisher]

Having recently taken the class all I can really say is this:

What's so confusing about the tables? I was lucky to be in a class full of sharp sticks. My instructor was telling us that most of his classes take HOURS to get the tables down. I didn't find them difficult to grasp at all and learned them on my own using the guide book well before the day of the class. I think it's useful knowledge - I like to know what I'm doing rather than just which button to press. To each his own though.

 

[leapfrog]

I've never seen a diver in over 10 years of diving use a table for diving unless its their OW class

Where do you dive, where have you dived and who have you dived with? I have seen plenty of divers using tables for diving. I'm one of them.

and I'm coming across more and more new divers who don't know how to read their own computer or the rental computer

Computers come with manuals. The people who design the computers and write the manuals assume you have had proper training before you buy the computer (most come with a clear disclaimer on this issue). The real problem is that some people either can't read or won't read the manual before using their PDC.

I think it's time for PADI to reduce the info on tables in the OW book and take out students having to actually learn the table.

Why? Becuase it is too difficult? Because you consider it to be irrelevant? Becuse you think students are not interested in learning?

Leave a page to cover the theory and basic physics

A page? To cover dive tables, No Deco Diving, multilevel dive profiles, planning repetitive dives,etc?

so people will understand what it was used for and then cover computer usage alot more.

Did you get a PADI Open Water Diver Manual when you did your course? Did you read it? Have you still got it? I ask because I just fished out a 1999 OWD manual and it discusses PDCs and makes it quite clear that PDCs do exactly the same as the RDP and states the advantages and disadvantages of using PDCs vs the RDP

Advantages

They are easier to use than tables because they automatically register time and depth and avoid human errors.

More available dive time using multilevel profiles and also avoiding the necessary rounding up of dive table numbers and letters (here it suggests using the Wheel as the best "back up" table which begs the question of why we have lost the Wheel in favor of the eRDPML?)

They register your THEORETICAL nitrogen load during all your successive dives. The book states clearly that although you can make these calculations yourself using the tables, PDCs do it automatically.

Disadvantages

PDCs can fail before, during or after a dive.

They could entice you to do things that you are have been specifically trained not to do (e.g. seesaw dive profiles) by being shown theoritical numbers on your PDC that can make you think you are diving responsibly when in fact you are not.

You get longer dive times by eliminating "rounding up" but by doing that you are effectively losing the safety margen that that "rounding up" gve you in the first place.

The 1999 PADI OWD Manual then goes on to say quite clearly that you should not be dissuaded to use a PDC because of the only theoretical disadvantages! It also states that "nowadays it is more difficult to find a diver without a PDC than with one"!

Divers who dive with computers has drastically increased over the past four years so why not adapt to modern times?

Well, it looks as though PADI adapted to modern times TEN YEARS AGO in its OWD syllabus.

What do you think?

1. Instructors should teach redundancy. (In military diving it's called "Two is One and One is None"). If you are going to use a PDC then either you have two PDCs and dive with both of them, preferably both using the same algorithm, or you also wear a dive watch, use an analog or digital SPG and you take the RDP with you. PDC manufacturers also highly recommend using a backup instrument system. (read for example Oceanic Atom 2.0 operaing manual, page 174.)
2. Both the tables and PDCs should be covered in the OWD course for as long as it takes. Prescriptive teaching!
3. The actual PADI OWD syllabus covers in depth the topic "How To Use and Choose Dive Computers" so it behoves the instructor to have a number of different models to show and explain in class.
4. The actual purchase of a PDC should be done after having had time to think for yourself which is the best option (wrist or console, watch or large, functions you want and need, price, etc) and I would, IMPO, highly recommend you buy from an instructor (although he may be working in a large dive equipment store). Make sure that the seller is giving you all te options and doesn't have a sales target to reach on a particular model. The seller shoud be thoroughly versed about the computer you select and spend time with you to go through all of the functions before you take it home.
5. Read the Manual.

 

[The Chairman]

We have enough to teach in BOW without watering it down teaching something that has limited application outside the course.

Which is why I don't teach tables!

 

[*dave*]

Which is why I don't teach tables!

Instead you teach something that has limited direct application outside of your course.

 

[TMHeimer]

A simple post on tables. They're not rocket science. If a guy like me (who is NOT a quick study) can learn them rather easily for OW, what's the big deal? I do one dive table problem every other day with a Nitrox problem in between. Takes about a minute. I have a computer, but only use it on deep dives, otherwise the old watch and tables. You plan the dive with tables anyway, or the eRDPml these days. As a DM candidate I'm learning the whole ball of wax about decompression models--all interesting stuff. But you still can only stay a max of 20 minutes on Air at 100 ft. The tables say so.

 

[gndpdr]

don't let the doc hear that...he probably doesn't even inform his " certified " divers on how to rotate the bezel on the watch..but wait why use a watch...the pdc has a time program ...!!!!!!!!

 

[leapfrog]

...he probably doesn't even inform his " certified " divers on how to rotate the bezel on the watch..but wait why use a watch...the pdc has a time program ...!!!!!!!!

Rotating a bezel on a dive watch is ROCKET SCIENCE. You need to pass a stringent screening program, medical (yeah, what about your eyesight?) and then undergo one of the hardest training programs known to man before you are qualified to rotate that bezel!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Rotating a bezel on a dive watch is ROCKET SCIENCE. You need to pass a stringent screening program, medical (yeah, what about your eyesight?) and then undergo one of the hardest training programs known to man before you are qualified to rotate that bezel!

This is the newest of the PADI certifications

Rotating a bezel on a dive watch

 

[gndpdr]

yeah back in the dark ages when i was diving off noah's ark the dive tables were etched on stone tablets which was cool becuse they doubled as weights we had sundials for time keeping but it only worked as far as the light got down we used a rope with knots every 10 feet for a depth guide