PADI tables finally going away?

[Blackwood]

Kids still learn their multiplication tables even though calculators exist. Learning why your computer or eRDP is telling you what it tells you is important.

It is a false analogy.

Not sure about that...

For 1, learning multiplication tables isn't learning multiplication, it's memorizing products, and doesn't have anything to do with why a calculator gives the results it does.

For 2, learning to slide your finger along a table in no way teaches 'why'. It's merely a different 'how'.

So I guess that's a reasonable analogy that can be summarized as follows: Kids learn things under the false illusion of deeper education, and so do divers.

The question is: why should they (kids OR divers)?

 

[boulderjohn]

The question is: why should they (kids OR divers)?

The answer to that goes to one of the reasons it is a false analogy.

One of the key goals of early math education is to have the student gain automaticity in arithmetic processes. Students need first of all to understand what multiplication is, and then they need to be able to perform basic functions so fluently that they become "automatic" for them They don't have to slide their finger along a table--they know the answer without giving it a lot of thought. That is because research indicates that this is a vital skill for later learning and even for general functioning in life. Students learn higher science principles, for example, more easily when they can do such basic operations in their heads. The purpose for learning multiplication tables is to achieve that necessary automaticity.

Calculators have important functions, too, and it is important for students to learn how to use them for those functions.

Thus, the two are needed independently of one another. In contrast, you don't have an independent need for both the tables and a computer.

There are other reasons for it being a false analogy, as was explained earlier.

 

[tomfcrist]

boulderjohn....
Pedagogy is your vocation????? So you are a professional student learning to become a teacher?
as to are all thing created equal.....no. However i find it interesting that a "tech" diver shuns tables, when the only computers they should be using are in gauge mode.

Since you aren't clear on who i was talking to/about.....I odnt mind calling a spade a spade...NetDoc.

I'm really glad that he has friends that will back him up after he deliberatly goes after anyone on this thread that doesnt agree with HIM. well, i dont agree...and as long as you, netdoc and others want to try to make me sound like the closed minded fool around here, I'll keep throwing it back in your face.

Have a great day,
Tom

 

[The Chairman]

as long as you, netdoc and others want to try to make me sound like the closed minded fool around here, I'll keep throwing it back in your face.

I don't believe that I have called anyone around here, including yourself, a closed minded fool. Perhaps you can share a post in this thread where I have done so?

 

[The Chairman]

From Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com

ped·a·go·gy   [ped-uh-goh-jee, -goj-ee]
–noun, plural -gies.

1. the function or work of a teacher; teaching.
2. the art or science of teaching; education; instructional methods.

 

[boulderjohn]

boulderjohn....
Pedagogy is your vocation????? So you are a professional student learning to become a teacher?

No, I am a professional educator specializing in pedagogical theory. I am also an editor for the Education Technology and Change Journal. Look at my signature line and read through some of my published articles and you will get a sense of what I mean. I am merely trying to establish the fact that I know something about pedagogy and pedagogical theory.

as to are all thing created equal.....no.

Then what was your point?

However i find it interesting that a "tech" diver shuns tables, when the only computers they should be using are in gauge mode.

As it turns out, I do not use a computer for tech diving, nor do I use tables. I use a bottom timer and Ratio Deco. I have also used V-Planner. But we are not talking about tech diving here. We are talking about basic Open Water instruction for students who will only in very rare circumstances find their way to technical diving.

Also, many technical divers, perhaps most, use computers. That is how companies that sell decompression computers like the VR3, Shearwater Predator, Liquivsion X-1 (and others) stay in business.

I know tech divers who use ratio deco. I know tech divers who use computers. I know tech divers who use decompression planning software like V-Planner, DecoPlanner, Gap, etc. I do not know any tech divers who use tables. There are some tables that are applicable to technical diving, and people who want to do that sort of thing are free to learn them when it is needed. I just don't know anyone like this.

EDIT: I do use a computer while cave diving. I have only this year achieved full cave certification, and when I am in a cave I want all my attention focused on being a safe diver in a cave. It is nice to be able to glance at my wrist and know what my deco obligations are, if any, rather than having to calculate it all in my head.

Since you aren't clear on who i was talking to/about.....I odnt mind calling a spade a spade...NetDoc.

I'm really glad that he has friends that will back him up after he deliberatly goes after anyone on this thread that doesnt agree with HIM. well, i dont agree...and as long as you, netdoc and others want to try to make me sound like the closed minded fool around here, I'll keep throwing it back in your face.

I do like Pete, and although we have never met, I like to think we are friends. I certainly don't feel any urge to defend his posts for that reason. I speak for myself only.

No one has called you a close minded fool. We have merely responded to the arguments you make with arguments in return. No one has characterized you in any way. If you feel that our responses to your arguments make you look like a close minded fool, then I can't help with that.

As for "throwing it back in [my] face," I am not clear on what has been thrown back in my face. Could you explain?

 

[peterbj7]

I do not know any tech divers who use tables. There are some tables that are applicable to technical diving, and people who want to do that sort of thing are free to learn them when it is needed

I use tables for trimix diving, and so do pretty well all other trimix divers I know.

 

[boulderjohn]

I use tables for trimix diving, and so do pretty well all other trimix divers I know.

Fine. I don't. Which ones do you use?

 

[tomfcrist]

Then what was your point??

I never said all things were created equal....so what is YOUR point?

I know tech divers who use ratio deco. I know tech divers who use computers. I know tech divers who use decompression planning software like V-Planner, DecoPlanner, Gap, etc. I do not know any tech divers who use tables.

Really....dont know anyone who dives based on USnavy decomression models? I think not. And although im not completely familiar with the computer based planners, im pretty sure they are a square profile....just like tables, just on your laptop.

No one has called you a close minded fool. We have merely responded to the arguments you make with arguments in return. No one has characterized you in any way. If you feel that our responses to your arguments make you look like a close minded fool, then I can't help with that.?

No one called me a closed minded fool...correct. they just said that i have some kind of emotional attachment to an archaic practice of diving tables.

As for "throwing it back in [my] face," I am not clear on what has been thrown back in my face. Could you explain?

Sure i will..... go back to my first post in this thread, and see where the arguement started. I merely stated the fact that I will teach tables, because they are a valuble tool. Netdoc somehow took this as meaning that i dont teach computers, or shun them for some reason(not remotely true by the way), and decided to give me his two cents that I am part of an ongoing problem in the dive community because i teach tables that NO STUDENT WILL EVER USE OUTSIDE OF A CLASS. BullsH1t!
And when i called him on it, next thing you know Kingpatzer joins in with him, and now you. Keep trying to make me look like the bad guy....It shows that you have no humility, and no class.

 

[peterbj7]

Fine. I don't. Which ones do you use?

I use IANTD tables. But my point is that I do (or have done) a great deal of trimix diving, and although many trimix divers I know also use a computer (as I do) they use tables on every dive.