PADI tables finally going away?

[Kingpatzer]

Plastic tables may be a tool not well suited for teaching deco theory but they have some value and work anywhere, anytime, with instructors and students who speak any language.

There are blind people who dive too. Should we all learn braille, or should we perhaps not set our policies based on outliers and instead create exceptions for them?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yeah, that internet's a passing fad anyway. No one will ever use a message board about diving to learn something new!

Obviously you are incorrect here (sarcasm I know) but John is 100% correct. His post, as quoted by you, states:

So let's not pretend that high speed Internet is in any way essential to actual scuba diving.

When I certified, I did not do anything with the internet. It was a spontaneous decision on vacation....no internet. So tell me how high speed has anything to do with actual diving. Not learning to dive.....not cyber diving.....actual diving.

 

[The Chairman]

You know it's sarcasm and you still want to debate it?

That being said, elearning is here and many people are being introduced to our sport via the internet. I know for a fact that without it, I could not afford my diving addiction. So, it's very necessary, at least for me.

 

[tomfcrist]

Tom,
quite often that pedagogical standpoint includes WHY they teach in a certain manner. Why they feel that this is the most efficacious way to teach theory? Or possibly, in a vernacular you can appreciate: "What's the dealio, yo?" .

Pedagogy is the study of being a teacher. The term generally refers to strategies of instruction, or a style of instruction (pedagogical theory).
As far as vernicular that I can appreciate, Ebonics isnt my best language

I am not sure the impetus (or motive) has been adequately explained to us, and definitely not by this individual as they just got here. For the most part I am getting...

• That's the way we've always taught this.
• Tables are more basic than PDCs.
• Tables are analog. (Whatever the hell that means.)
• Tables are the shizam.
• BECAUSE WE DO!

Now, while I have compiled this list tongue in cheek, the bottom line is that we don't fully understand why and have been frustrated in trying to engage several people in a dialog about that. Obviously, we think that some of the reasoning used is fallacious and would love to compare and contrast our differing ideologies with a minimum of rancor. .

The reasons for you not wanting to teach tables are:
1. Students will not use them...
2. Computers are more user friendly....
3. Students that arent taught Computers at the basic level are ****ty divers who dont plan their dives.

Did I miss any?

Sorry Tom,I try to use the right word for the right concept and make an honest effort to avoid the use of sesquipedalians. I don't see "impetus" as a particularly rare or archaic term, and would expect that most people have learned it by the ninth grade. Moreover, I am certain that I am using it correctly, but thanks for your concern. Hopefully, I have made a few people break out their online Funk & Wagnalls to expand their vocabulary from time to time. For this, I refuse to apologize. After all, ScubaBoard is all about learning.

True, impedus isn't a rare or archaic word, however it has a buttload of differant meanings. OBTW motive is 6 letters, impedus is 7....if you are really trying to drive your point across(whatever that is), why not use a shorter and more direct term? I dont want you to apologize, but if you could stop acosting others with your one track, my way or the highway teaching theorys it would be a start.

 

[tomfcrist]

NETDOC,

Just out of curiosity, do you think that Tables should be taught at any level?

 

[boulderjohn]

No, i never implied that, nor said that....He asked from a pedagogical standpoint. That has nothing to do with what is required to be taught, or needs to be taught, it has to do with teaching theory. which by the way is a personal ideology, not collective.

Pedagogy is the study of being a teacher. The term generally refers to strategies of instruction, or a style of instruction (pedagogical theory).

Pedagogy is my vocation, and I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that there all methods of instruction are equally effective, and individual instructors are equally effective using whatever methods they prefer?

If so, then you should know that every shred of evidence derived from research says just the opposite. If you have any information from a known pedagogical theorist to support your position, I would be glad to see it.

If that is not what you are saying, then please explain further.

True, impedus isn't a rare or archaic word, however it has a buttload of differant meanings. OBTW motive is 6 letters, impedus is 7....if you are really trying to drive your point across(whatever that is), why not use a shorter and more direct term? I dont want you to apologize, but if you could stop acosting others with your one track, my way or the highway teaching theorys it would be a start.

I am not clear on who has a one track, my way or the highway theory. Can you differentiate between these two for me, letting me know which one has a "my way or the highway" approach?

1. The person who says that computers should be taught either with or without tables because divers have historically not used tables when diving, but they do overwhelmingly use computers.

2. The person who says that dive tables rather than computers should always be taught because... because... (I am not clear on the reasons because it seems to me that all mentioned have been refuted).

 

[stratdax]

Kids still learn their multiplication tables even though calculators exist. Learning why your computer or eRDP is telling you what it tells you is important.
I can't believe anybody would argue against learning all that you can. Learn everything, tables, eRDP, computer, and they "why" behind each device. Doing so will only help. More knowledge is never bad.

 

[Quero]

I am not clear on who has a one track, my way or the highway theory. Can you differentiate between these two for me, letting me know which one has a "my way or the highway" approach?

1. The person who says that computers should be taught either with or without tables because divers have historically not used tables when diving, but they do overwhelmingly use computers.

2. The person who says that dive tables rather than computers should always be taught because... because... (I am not clear on the reasons because it seems to me that all mentioned have been refuted).

I think at this point of the discussion the most solid reason presented is that they (tables) are low tech--dive computers, being high tech, cost money and may not be available for rent in certain remote places. This, of course, is a logistical motive, not a pedagogical one.

 

[boulderjohn]

Kids still learn their multiplication tables even though calculators exist. Learning why your computer or eRDP is telling you what it tells you is important.

This, too, was covered in detail not long ago in the thread. I am too weary of saying the same thing over and over again to repeat the entire thing. It is a false analogy. If you want to know why, please read back over the pages in which this was explained.

I can't believe anybody would argue against learning all that you can. Learn everything, tables, eRDP, computer, and they "why" behind each device. Doing so will only help. More knowledge is never bad.

Again, this was covered earlier in the thread. Look up Interference Theory to see what I mean. More knowledge is indeed sometimes bad. If you overload students with tons of information, they will learn none of it. If instead you teach them what they need to know thoroughly, they are more likely to remember it.

If you took a first aid course a decade or so ago and then take one now, you will see that philosophy in action. The courses now teach less first aid then they used to because research showed that people who had taken courses often froze at the scene of an accident and refused to help because they could not remember all that they had been taught and were afraid to make a mistake. Research further showed that by focusing on fewer key principles, students remembered more and were more likely to use it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think at this point of the discussion the most solid reason presented is that they (tables) are low tech--dive computers, being high tech, cost money and may not be available for rent in certain remote places. This, of course, is a logistical motive, not a pedagogical one.

...and it is probably why someone in that circumstance should choose the table instruction option rather than the computer instruction option.