PADI Self Reliant Diver with Spare Air?

[Nemrod]

You keep saying this, but it is not true. SDI allows a SA, but many SDI Solo Instructors do not. PADI does not allow a SA.

But I am SDI and the stsndard factually states Spare Air by names as acceptable. Instructors should stick to the standards and not invent their own based on bias and a pet peeve.

N

 

[tursiops]

But I am SDI and the stsndard factually states Spare Air by names as acceptable. Instructors should stick to the standards and not invent their own based on bias and a pet peeve.

N

Yes, SDI say OK to SA. PADI does not. You said "all" agencies.

Stick to standards? SDI and TDI standards are a minimum, and SB must have hundreds of threads that argue for training being to more than the minimum standards.

 

[Nemrod]

Yes, SDI say OK to SA. PADI does not. You said "all" agencies.

Stick to standards? SDI and TDI standards are a minimum, and SB must have hundreds of threads that argue for training being to more than the minimum standards.

I probably meant to type only as the Padi cert does not specifically say solo either.

Hey if you want to buy and service that thing, knock yourself out. I'll stick to the complex pony... where the reg set can be used on any tank.

But cannot I have both? I am not under any restriction that say I cannot use the equipment that match the dive and for me at deeper depth that will be my 19 or 30 bottles. But I would not use those for a shallow or beach dive.

I am just having sport with you guys, I do not especially disagree with y'all. .

N

 

[gcarter]

Late to the thread, partially because of a dive trip : ).
If I find myself "riding the pony" because my main gas supply has run out (stupid, stupid) or a problem developed (possibly stupid) I am not going to be fussing with a DSMB, I'm going up. However much a safety stop is advisable, so long as I have been diving within my no decompression limit, it is optional.

Even with overhead hazards? I would still be deploying the DSMB if I was diving in the St Lawrence as an example. Too much risk from boat traffic in many areas.

 

[markmud]

That (to me) sounds like an instructor requirement, not a standard. Was your instructor a tech instructor maybe? Remember, solo/self reliant are recreational certs, therefore, no overhead. Your gas supply needs to be enough to get you to the surface, no more, no less. Of course, rule of thirds is nice, but not to standard. Big fat redundant systems are nice, not required. and safety stops, while nice, aren't required. All that's required is to get you to the air that nature provided safely. For most folks, a spare air can do that.

Hello All,

I came to this thread late--sorry about that.

Wookie, you nailed-it again! Nice!

I don't agree with using a 3cf spare air. However, I use a 6cf pony rig for many solo dives (and all buddy dives). I practice pony bottle ascents while manually adjusting my BC and shooting an SMB. I can easily reach our unlimited gas supply with air-to-spare. Sometimes, depending on the dive, I use a 13cf pony.

My instructor was adamant--solve your biggest problem first which is breathing gas. Don't swim to the anchor, don't search for your access point, don't navigate. Surface, Surface, Surface! And, he drilled us on ditching the safety stop.

Ocham's razor, simplex veri sigilum, lex parsimony. Just keep it simple stupid.

Didn't we have to perform a surface swim with gear for certification to prove to ourselves that a surface swim after suffering a primary breathing system failure is preferred?

For some, and depending on the profile, a 3cf spare air may be adequate.

markm
PS: I have a high SAC (sarc). It is .5. Some of us really don't need a 30 or 40 cf bottle.

 

[DevonDiver]

I probably meant to type only as the Padi cert does not specifically say solo either.

One issue I have with PADI cards is that they don't specifically state what the certification limits are. They only show the name of the course.

PADI wanted the course to appeal beyond solo diving... in recognition that the competencies developed are also beneficial within the buddy and team context... being self-reliant.

Whilst that PADI card doesn't specifically state solo, the course does specifically state that.

The card is proof of training that the diver can dive outside of the buddy system.

 

[markmud]

One issue I have with PADI cards is that they don't specifically state what the certification limits are. They only show the name of the course.

PADI wanted the course to appeal beyond solo diving... in recognition that the competencies developed are also beneficial within the buddy and team context... being self-reliant.

Whilst that PADI card doesn't specifically state solo, the course does specifically state that.

The card is proof of training that the diver can dive outside of the buddy system.

Hi Devon,

Thanks for your response to Nemrod. I don't understand why there seems to be ongoing confusion over the PADI Self-Reliant issue. We know what the term self-reliant means, right?

Also, after TDI/SDI published their "Recreational Sport Diver Equivelencies", I thought this issue was put to bed. PADI, SDI, and SSI have their solo certs listed on the same line in the matrix.

People: words mean things, course syllabus' mean things, and industry consensus means something.

markm

 

[Wookie]

Hi Devon,

Thanks for your response to Nemrod. I don't understand why there seems to be ongoing confusion over the PADI Self-Reliant issue. We know what the term self-reliant means, right?

Also, after TDI/SDI published their "Recreational Sport Diver Equivelencies", I thought this issue was put to bed. PADI, SDI, and SSI have their solo certs listed on the same line in the matrix.

People: words mean things, course syllabus' mean things, and industry consensus means something.

markm

IANTD also has a self-reliant diver program, and it existed before PADIs did. However, the IANTD program is specifically NOT to allow buddyless diving, but to keep a recreational diver alive in the event of buddy separation. I got that info from a member of the IANTD BOD as well as from Mr. Mount himself.

It leads to confusion, especially when an instructor is both PADI and IANTD, as many are, but teaching the course with the same name but with 2 different standards.

 

[DevonDiver]

A bit like the vast differences between PADI's, SSI's and BSAC's "Advanced" ratings.... but we all get our heads around that easily enough.

Or, I guess, one can decide to be obtuse and willfully choose to be ignorant of such as simple concept...

 

[markmud]

IANTD also has a self-reliant diver program, and it existed before PADIs did. However, the IANTD program is specifically NOT to allow buddyless diving, but to keep a recreational diver alive in the event of buddy separation. I got that info from a member of the IANTD BOD as well as from Mr. Mount himself.

It leads to confusion, especially when an instructor is both PADI and IANTD, as many are, but teaching the course with the same name but with 2 different standards.

Thanks Wookie,

I did not know that. I do use my "solo" cert training to keep myself safe during buddy dives. I have the gear, experience, and training--so I may as well be prepared when my buddy is AWOL. Being a self-reliant diver in a buddy team is a great thing.

markm