PADI Self Reliant Diver with Spare Air?

[DevonDiver]

Any diver "compelled to pay lip service" to the standards and procedures taught in solo/self-sufficient training shouldn't be qualified. That'd be a 'mindset' fail.

Flashing the card, but not applying the training represented by that card is a kind of fraud.

 

[redacted]

Any diver "compelled to pay lip service" to the standards and procedures taught in solo/self-sufficient training shouldn't be qualified. That'd be a 'mindset' fail.

Flashing the card, but not applying the training represented by that card is a kind of fraud.

Don't you just hate it when divers think for themselves?

Add risk? Sure

Unacceptable risk? Up to the diver.

 

[Bob DBF]

Given that SAC calculation is a primary component on the Self-Reliant Diver course, it's shocking that a Spare Air would be permitted by the instructor.

Any diver "compelled to pay lip service" to the standards and procedures taught in solo/self-sufficient training shouldn't be qualified. That'd be a 'mindset' fail.

It seems like the use of a Spare Air for Solo training is a an Agency problem. As you point out, no one is taking the training program seriously enough to correct an obvious error. However, in real life, I would not be deploying a DSMB, or making a safety stop, in an emergency ascent so a Spare Air would work.

Flashing the card, but not applying the training represented by that card is a kind of fraud.

I have seen that with other cards, including professional, so why would this be unexpected or different?



Bob

 

[Nemrod]

. However, in real life, I would not be deploying a DSMB, or making a safety stop, in an emergency ascent so a Spare Air would work. Bob

Same here. I mean, if I wanted to do a shark tooth dive from one of the ops and the water was 15 feet and the captain said well, fine, no problems. But where is your redundant air supply? Well, I could just reach in my bag and pull out my little Spare Air. It meets the standard and is specifically mentioned as acceptable and in this example is more than adequate. And besides, if you need to make a safety stop from 15 feet, you have issues I cannot help you with.

If you can free dive to 100 feet (which I can), how big is the needed redundant air supply? In my example, where I think a Spare Air to be adequate, really, nothing is needed except to satisfy a standard I never especially recall voting on. But, if somebody insists I adhere to it since I am on their boat, I will certainly do so. But would prefer to do so in the least intrusive, dare I say minimal means possible.

N

 

[DevonDiver]

Don't you just hate it when divers think for themselves?

Unacceptable risk? Up to the diver.

.... unless wanting to claim on many insurance policies, or use the services of a dive operation.

Many people do solo training so that they gave a card to permit solo diving via dive operators.

Showing the card to a dive operator and asking to dive solo involves a tacit understanding that you'd properly follow the training and recommendations associated with that card.

What's the logic in doing solo training if you have zero intention of applying it?!? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. . .

Diving from someone else's boat / resort / shop means that they decide reasonable and unreasonable risk.

If diving independent of any diving operation, you don't need to show a card... or have done training... or apply whatever training you've recieved. You can take whatever unreasonable risks you want...and test Darwin's law to your heart's content.
.

 

[redacted]

.... unless wanting to claim on many insurance policies, or use the services of a dive operation.

Many people do solo training so that they gave a card to permit solo diving via dive operators.

Showing the card to a dive operator and asking to dive solo involves a tacit understanding that you'd properly follow the training and recommendations associated with that card.

What's the logic in doing solo training if you have zero intention of applying it?!? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. . .

Diving from someone else's boat / resort / shop means that they decide reasonable and unreasonable risk.

If diving independent of any diving operation, you don't need to show a card... or have done training... or apply whatever training you've recieved. You can take whatever unreasonable risks you want...and test Darwin's law to your heart's content.
.

I have never run into an insurance company that said anything about redundant gas, never mind how much or where kept.

Any agreements established before money changes hands are set in the contract. Anything added after are suggestions or requests. I make my safety/risk decisions.

 

[DevonDiver]

Specific stipulations on redundant gas? No.

Small print about following recommended practices, certification-based limits, reasonable prudence? Yes.

Is it inconceivable that an insurer's lawyers wouldn't look at the training syllabus and recommended safe practices attributed to your certification level... relative to how you performed the dive in question... when deciding whether to pay out a claim?

 

[redacted]

Specific stipulations on redundant gas? No.

Small print about following recommended practices, certification-based limits, reasonable prudence? Yes.

Is it inconceivable that an insurer's lawyers wouldn't look at the training syllabus and recommended safe practices attributed to your certification level... relative to how you performed the dive in question... when deciding whether to pay out a claim?

In my case, it is inconceivable but that is besides the point.

In general, it is just highly unlikely. i have never seen such small print related to scuba. I guess it may also be conceivable that your pony could have bad air.

 

[DevonDiver]

i have never seen such small print related to scuba.

SICK DIVER FACES BILL OF £40K

Now you've seen it...

 

[CuzzA]

The way I see it is a Spare Air is a perfectly acceptable device to assist a diver in a free ascent. Calling it a redundant scuba system is a stretch.

Also, the SA folks apparently are experts at separating fools from their money considering their website states they have sold over 250,000 units at a MSRP of $320.

Considering a 13 cuft. tank is typically enough redundant gas for a non stop dive to a depth of 100 ft. and costs about $100 and you can find new first and second stage deals for around $150. Add another $40 for a button gauge and rigging and you're at $290. $30 cheaper, won't breath like crap, will likely work when needed and you have a hell of a lot more utility then you would with 3 cu ft.