PADI Self Reliant Diver with Spare Air?

[redacted]

SICK DIVER FACES BILL OF £40K

Now you've seen it...

No, I have not. Depth limits restrictions are fairly common which was the violated restriction in this example. The scuba restriction you suggested ( Small print about following recommended practices, certification-based limits, reasonable prudence) seem to be a fiction.

 

[drrich2]

Showing the card to a dive operator and asking to dive solo involves a tacit understanding that you'd properly follow the training and recommendations associated with that card.

What's the logic in doing solo training if you have zero intention of applying it?!? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. . .

Undergoing formal solo training should instill the student with a knowledge of the issues, risks and risk mitigation strategies inherent to recreational solo diving. This should also instill the capacity for informed consent in that diver; he knows the issues, what a given agency recommends and why, and he can decide whether and to what extent to adhere to those recommendations (e.g.: Spare Air vs. larger, bulkier pony rig, whether to adhere to the rule of 3rds when deciding turn pressure, etc...).

A diver of similar experience without such formal training, or its equivalent, may not have been as properly acquainted with said issues, and may be less capable of appreciating the nature of his choices and exercising informed consent to engage in a given dive with whatever strategies he decides to employ.

In simpler terms, if you've had solo training, you should know what you're doing (even if what you're doing is cutting corners). Without that training, you might not understand as well.

Richard.

 

[Nemrod]

The way I see it is a Spare Air is a perfectly acceptable device to assist a diver in a free ascent. Calling it a redundant scuba system is a stretch.

Also, the SA folks apparently are experts at separating fools from their money considering their website states they have sold over 250,000 units at a MSRP of $320.

Considering a 13 cuft. tank is typically enough redundant gas for a non stop dive to a depth of 100 ft. and costs about $100 and you can find new first and second stage deals for around $150. Add another $40 for a button gauge and rigging and you're at $290. $30 cheaper, won't breath like crap, will likely work when needed and you have a hell of a lot more utility then you would with 3 cu ft.

But if 13cf is enough from 100 feet then I think my 3cf SA is enough from 20 feet. it is a redundant air supply and the agencies both so state that it is.

I think part of being a solo diver is to have the wisdom to pick what is needed to safely complete a dive. And, while I would not normally even bother with redundancy in 20 feet of water over a sand bottom digging for shark teeth, per my example, if I were diving on a commercial boat, as has been stated, implicit in being allowed to use the SOLO Diver Card is the at least tacit obligation to follow the rules and meet the minimum standards at least. At 100 feet on the Big O, a SA is not meeting enough to reasonably meet the standard.

I would prefer, actually I guess they do, if the solo courses would teach the redundant supply as a function of depth and risk.

N

 

[CuzzA]

I would prefer, actually I guess they do, if the solo courses would teach the redundant supply as a function of depth and risk.

Agreed. I never took a solo course, but redundant supply, depth and risk is what is most important. I now have a 13 and 19. I use the tool for the job. 13 for ~40' - 100' and the 19 for ~80' - 130' depending on the dive.

My point is more so that the SA is a piss poor investment. If I felt the need to carry redundancy < 40' (which I don't) I'd buy a 6 cuft. tank with a reg set that I could use on another tank.

 

[Nemrod]

Agreed. I never took a solo course, but redundant supply, depth and risk is what is most important. I now have a 13 and 19. I use the tool for the job. 13 for ~40' - 100' and the 19 for ~80' - 130' depending on the dive.

My point is more so that the SA is a piss poor investment. If I felt the need to carry redundancy < 40' (which I don't) I'd buy a 6 cuft. tank with a reg set that I could use on another tank.

Laughing, it is cold outside so might as well argue, lol, plus I am putting off my two mile swim as long as possible today . What I am saying is a Spare Air is half the weight and complexity (of a six cf tank and regulator) and is self contained and therefore IMO more likely to be carried across 150 yards of sand and 200 yards of parking lots to get to the 100 yards of sand and then a half mile swim out to the 20 foot reef. And then repeat in reverse. And IMO is completely adequate for that dive profile. Really, in such dives the question is whether any redundancy is needed. But I realize, for very shallow dives, still some would carry a spare mask, a spare set of fins, a spare knife, a spare tooth brush so might as well carry a Spare Air!

Regarding your suggestion, rather than slinging for very shallow dives, I think the 6cf in a nylon pouch secured to a camband and an Air Buddy would be an excellent minimalist rig. Slung tanks are hard to walk with especially if toting a camera rig and they bang the camera, especially while walking or entering/existing surf.

Normal Diver Priority:
1. The diver
2. Everything else.

Photo Diver Priority:
1. The camera rig
2. The camera rig

N

 

[CuzzA]

Laughing, it is cold outside so might as well argue, lol, plus I am putting off my two mile swim as long as possible today . What I am saying is a Spare Air is half the weight and complexity (of a six cf tank and regulator) and is self contained and therefore IMO more likely to be carried across 150 yards of sand and 200 yards of parking lots to get to the 100 yards of sand and then a half mile swim out to the 20 foot reef. And then repeat in reverse. And IMO is completely adequate for that dive profile. Really, in such dives the question is whether any redundancy is needed. But I realize, for very shallow dives, still some would carry a spare mask, a spare set of fins, a spare knife, a spare tooth brush so might as well carry a Spare Air!

Regarding your suggestion, rather than slinging for very shallow dives, I think the 6cf in a nylon pouch secured to a camband and an Air Buddy would be an excellent minimalist rig. Slung tanks are hard to walk with especially if toting a camera rig and they bang the camera, especially while walking or entering/existing surf.

Normal Diver Priority:
1. The diver
2. Everything else.

Photo Diver Priority:
1. The camera rig
2. The camera rig

N

Hey if you want to buy and service that thing, knock yourself out. I'll stick to the complex pony... where the reg set can be used on any tank.

 

[tursiops]

But if 13cf is enough from 100 feet then I think my 3cf SA is enough from 20 feet. it is a redundant air supply and the agencies both so state that it is.

You keep saying this, but it is not true. SDI allows a SA, but many SDI Solo Instructors do not. PADI does not allow a SA.

 

[jseyfert3]

No, I have not. Depth limits restrictions are fairly common which was the violated restriction in this example. The scuba restriction you suggested ( Small print about following recommended practices, certification-based limits, reasonable prudence) seem to be a fiction.

Out of curiosity I read through DAN's small print. The only diving related non covered incidents they won't cover are maximum depth or duration attempts, contests, or preparation dives for, for breathhold or compressed air diving.

Of course they are pretty much diving specific so one could reasonable assume they would have less diving restrictions on their coverage compared to other insurance providers. I tried a random travel insurance provider to look in their small print but unfortunately the one I choose would not give you the fine print until you were through a good bit of the checkout process, I'm assuming right before you click the "buy" button.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Out of curiosity I read through DAN's small print. The only diving related non covered incidents they won't cover are maximum depth or duration attempts, contests, or preparation dives for, for breathhold or compressed air diving.

You are being US centric like most of us in the US... Europe DAN has different rules as well as laws and .....

 

[jseyfert3]

You are being US centric like most of us in the US... Europe DAN has different rules as well as laws and .....

Fair enough. So I checked out DAN's fine print for someone from Germany. Seems relatively the same, except now they don't exclude maximum depth or duration dives, and exclude those over 75 unless medically cleared.

But there are a lot of counties over there, and as you said they will all have different exclusions and underlying laws.