Oversight of Dive shops by Dive Agencies (PADI, NAUI, etc.)

[mjatkins]

I don't have a copy of the NAUI standards on hand. Maybe somebody else who does could enlighten you. The GUE standards are available from their website:

http://www.gue.com/Training/Standards/GUE_Standards_2006_ver4.pdf

Thanks for the info on GUE, I look forward to reviewing it. But surely someone who is as familiar as yourself with both the NAUI and PADI standards could come up with some of the huge differences you mentioned. If it's that big a difference, and you are confidant that you know what you are talking about, surely you have at least a partial list that you can recite.

Thanks for jumping into the conversation, the more opinions the better.

 

[mjatkins]

That's not necessarily true. As you said the DM exams are in the Instructor manual, so when a DM candidate buys the Instructor manual the DM has the answers to the exams, unless the instructor has the forethought to remove the DM exam's from the manual for the duration of the course.

I said the answer keys are in the manual. As previously discussed, it seems PADI is trying to deal with this by not releasing that portion of the manual to DM candidates. I have also stated that I agree that it's not apropriate to make those keys available to DM candidates. How does NAUI deal with this issue differently?

Thanks

 

[Walter]

That is true Walter (that it's not there). Are you saying that it is in the NAUI OW manual?

I have no idea, I've never read the NAUI OW text. It is in the YMCA text.

BTW, I wasn't "saying" anything. I was merely asking you a question.

 

[mjatkins]

That really ticked me off, in case you cannot tell. I think 2/3 of my DM class had the exam the day they walked in and can't tell you what 10% of 60 is.

Tell me, how tough would it be to change the exam every quarter? And have ten versions instead of a few? They know this is the only way some of these people are passing. It's dangerous.

So as a PADI proffessional who has agreed to report this sort of thing (cheating, a standards violation), what did you do? Also, are you implying that someone without the mental faculty to learn this level of math could really be bright enough to memorize all of the answers to all of the DM exams, or are you exagerating?

Thanks

 

[Walter]

There's a big difference between intelligence and memory. They are often related, but not always. Ever hear of the term "idiot savant?"

 

[mjatkins]

There's a big difference between intelligence and memory. They are often related, but not always. Ever hear of the term "idiot savant?"

To start with, if you would like to quote me, I would ask that you don't stop quoting me in mid sentence. What I asked was "What is missing from the PADI OW manual, that I will find in the NAUI text? I do not have the NAUI book, or their standards, and would like to know." Taken in this light, your answer about the YMCA is interesting, but has nothing to do with what was asked.

And yes, I have heard of idiot sevants. They are people with an amazing ability to do one task but display little aptitude for anything else, at least that's my understanding. Forgive me, but I will need a little help to see the relevence of this statement also. Or are you simply implying that the majority of her classmates were obviously idiot sevants?

Thanks

 

[Cacia]

Look, if you have a copy of the exam (I don't care if you have the "answer key" or not) that is a huge advantage. They had worked the same problems that were on the exam many times...the entire week in fact, I found out later.

I am a PADI drop-out for these reasons. No, I don't report people, unless it is something pretty serious, and scuba doesn't get on that radar.

If PADI can't figure out how to "deal with this issue" then they need more help than I can give them. I am sure they know there is massive cheating going on...why else would you sell the test?

So...you don't think having seen the exact math questions is helpful if you don't have the answer key?...amazing

Also, are you implying that someone without the mental faculty to learn this level of math could really be bright enough to memorize all of the answers to all of the DM exams

They have seen the problems and worked them before they get the exam, thats what I am saying.

Look, don't take my word for it, start asking some of these same people to calculate tips,.. you'll be shocked.

No..I don't report standards violations, because I don't respect the standards, basically.

 

[rawls]

Catherine,
Are you angry...Can I buy you a glass of Kool-Aid...

BTW Catherine...Have you seen the March volume of Sport Diver...Yeah...I know it's PADI, but there is a picture of a lady on the Contents page (Page 4) She is holding what looks like a very nice camera or video casing and wearing a Bare shorty...It isn't a pic of you is it...Have you done any modeling lately?

 

[Cacia]

I'm not angry though..I like PADI for bringing so many people into the ocean and promoting diving, making it "safe enough" for many, many people to enjoy. I just can't really respect the written tests. And being an Instructor and teaching vacationers, kids, families, is a lot harder than teaching some math wiz engineering student deco. (I am guessing)

No...but three people asked me this week if I was that "doctor chick on Lost from the other side" and I have never seen Lost..I am afraid to look, last time this happened it wasn't too flattering) Seriously, people have been approaching me in the store and parking lot.

Hey, somebody made all my PADI certs disapear from my profile page. Now I am paranoid, pass the kool-aide.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Here's the problem with PADI:
Their standards are so low, I can't limbo under them.