Other Divers "Unsure" about the Sidemount setup - How do I present it?

[Wookie]

"I use sidemount because it is best for me in a doubles-required situation. Why, frankly, is no one's business."

Why can't you readers just accept that?

Hmmm. A bit touchy on the subject, are we?

Quite frankly, early adopters of any technology need to expect grief from the rest of the community. Why? Well, it's just human nature and you're just going to have to accept that. Your choice of instructor for sidemount advanced wreck penetration is a poor one, because he (she) doesn't teach sidemount advanced wreck penetration, and he (she) can't help you with critical issues like hose routing, tank configuration, and the like, because he (she) doesn't know anything about it. He (she) seems quite suspicious of this whole sidemount thing.

As I see it, you have 2 choices. 1. Get in your instructor's comfort zone by either switching back to backmount (easy) or making your instructor more comfortable with sidemount (perhaps harder), or 2. Find an instructor who will teach the class using the configuration you choose to dive, thereby changing this whole thing back to a learning situation for you, rather than a learning situation for your instructor. Be sure that I am not criticizing your instructor here, I'm sure he (she) is a very competent advanced wreck pen instructor. I'm criticizing your choice of that instructor and creating an environment where both you and the instructor get frustrated with the situation because of your choice of gear configuration. That frustration is evident in your posting.

Some of us old dogs need to be taught new tricks. I know of other boat operators that think that sidemount isn't the tool for diving in open water. I personally don't care if you dive with a cylinder tucked under one arm and a balloon for buoyancy if it works for you and you can get on and off the boat without too much involvement from the deck staff, but I'm still suspicious. RN is (so far) the only person who has dived from this boat sidemount with what I consider complete success. We've had other sidemount divers that show up with varying degrees of competence and success. If I were your wreck pen instructor, I'd be way happier to take you on if you showed complete comfort and skill with your rig instead of still getting used to it. Eat the elephant one bite at a time.

 

[Jax]

Hmmm. A bit touchy on the subject, are we?

Why, yes, I am! I want people to accept that I have made the very best decision for me. I do owe anyone justification for it.

Quite frankly, early adopters of any technology need to expect grief from the rest of the community. Why? Well, it's just human nature and you're just going to have to accept that. Your choice of instructor for sidemount advanced wreck penetration is a poor one, because he (she) doesn't teach sidemount advanced wreck penetration, and he (she) can't help you with critical issues like hose routing, tank configuration, and the like, because he (she) doesn't know anything about it. He (she) seems quite suspicious of this whole sidemount thing.

Oh, dear, I don't think I am expressing this very well.

My Instructor is NOT giving me "grief". He is expressing the honest feelings of my fellow wreck students and himself. I understand this. I am okay with it.


I want to know what would be the ways to instill confidence in my instructors (who I consider mentors/ friends) and anyone else I dive with.

I personally don't care if you dive with a cylinder tucked under one arm and a balloon for buoyancy if it works for you and you can get on and off the boat without too much involvement from the deck staff, but I'm still suspicious. RN is (so far) the only person who has dived from this boat sidemount with what I consider complete success.

BTW - I trained sidemount with Rob. He gave me all kinds of help and experience in sidemount! (For which I am enormously grateful!)

Interesting that you say that about the "too much involvement with the crew" . . . that is exactly why I came up with the rope off the side of the boat method. No choking the "in ramp" with my needs, I'm off to the side and getting hooked in. Again, too strange for him, perhaps.

 

[waterpirate]

LOL - Seriously? Eric, I thought you more broad-thinking than that!

"I use sidemount because it is best for me in a doubles-required situation. Why, frankly, is no one's business."

Why can't you readers just accept that?

As for the showing up in attitude . . . I've dived this rig with this instructors dives for over a year. There's no attitude, he knew it coming in, he is simply expressing a lack of confidence as expressed by the other students . . . and by himself, IMO. I have no problem with that. Fair enuff. I OWE him to build that confidence, and owe that to anyone with whom I dive.

"Should've taken . . . sidemount instructor" . . . Do you honestly think I don't know that? Let's see, there's "support your LDS", there's only one LDS, and trusted, experienced sidemount instructors are a state or two away.

You're right, I brought this scrutiny on myself . . . I am happy to do so, and want to represent sidemount the very best I can to my itty-bitty community.

Which IS, by the way, the OP question.

I am not in your $hit Jax, just pointing out the obvious. It does not bother me what configuration a diver chooses or why, I am sorry I bristled you up. As Wookie went on to say Ditto for me. I understand that you are geographicaly challenged at the moment.

It has been my experiance that when you get to the level of training such as advanced wreck pennetration, extended range, the instructors are so squared away that they are a closed mind. It takes a long time for them to adopt new stuff at their level, thus my comments, Captain obvious.
Eric

 

[Jax]

I am hemming and hawing, Wookie, about "creating an environment where both you and the instructor get frustrated" . . .

I am frustrated only with myself . . . Of course, I want to be the perfect ambassador for sidemount.

I don't think he is frustrated . . . I think I helped with immediate acceptance of his concerns and owning my part of it. And part of my part is that I had not dived sidemount in four months. I'm sure my rust did NOT help.

 

[Jax]

. . . the instructors are so squared away that they are a closed mind.
Eric

Please, let me state again, my instructors are NOT closed minds or giving me grief . . . he is expressing, as all good instructors should, a genuine concern about how *I* fit, and work, in a team environment. In other words, I haven't convinced him I am a SAFE member of a wreck penetration team. I am OKAY with him wanting me to better show my stuff.

And I REALLY want to be a better ambassador for sidemount. This is is my choice, and therefore the onus is on me to show the "right stuff".

Could I run off to North FL and train with sidemount folks? Yeah . . . okay, I'd get the card. I'm sure my LDS would give me a TDI referral. I just don't want to take the easy way. I WANT to be able to teach / show my locals that sidemount IS a tech solution.

 

[waterpirate]

Please, let me state again, my instructors are NOT closed minds or giving me grief . . . he is expressing, as all good instructors should, a genuine concern about how *I* fit, and work, in a team environment. In other words, I haven't convinced him I am a SAFE member of a wreck penetration team. I am OKAY with him wanting me to better show my stuff.

And I REALLY want to be a better ambassador for sidemount. This is is my choice, and therefore the onus is on me to show the "right stuff".

Could I run off to North FL and train with sidemount folks? Yeah . . . okay, I'd get the card. I'm sure my LDS would give me a TDI referral. I just don't want to take the easy way. I WANT to be able to teach / show my locals that sidemount IS a tech solution.

This is easy!
You Jax are hereby appointed the official ambassador of sidemount in all that sand with no ocean. I would say that my statement is valid about your instructor. So squared away that he/she is holding you to a higher standard to mesh as part of the penetration team.
Eric

 

[Jax]

This is easy!
You Jax are hereby appointed the official ambassador of sidemount in all that sand with no ocean. I would say that my statement is valid about your instructor. So squared away that he/she is holding you to a higher standard to mesh as part of the penetration team.
Eric

Well then, by golly, I want to meet that standard!

 

[TSandM]

I really think that what works for most divers is a demonstration that you can handle issues smoothly and competently. I know I was a little suspicious of sidemount to begin with, and my first experiences with people using it didn't allay my concerns, when divers took forever to get ready and then had issues underwater they didn't understand how to fix. Diving with people who were better AT it made me feel much more comfortable.

I am still puzzled by the unwillingness to hang bottles. On the boats you're using, do the tech divers climb the ladder with their stages and deco bottles on? I really haven't seen that on the few boats I've done tech dives from, and it would be very bad practice.

 

[Mike2Fst]

Gotta love the the ongoing controversy of sidemount vs backmount doubles. Do what works for you, practice and be proficient, stay on top of your emergancy procedures and all should be well. Also, sm and bm divers need to be aware of each others configurations and what to do in an emergency situation, I find there is not so much dissimilarity in each system as to be confounding or confusing. I fortunate to dive with a community where the mix of divers is roughly 40% sidemount and 60% backmount. To all safe diving.

 

[Jax]

I really think that what works for most divers is a demonstration that you can handle issues smoothly and competently. I know I was a little suspicious of sidemount to begin with, and my first experiences with people using it didn't allay my concerns, when divers took forever to get ready and then had issues underwater they didn't understand how to fix. Diving with people who were better AT it made me feel much more comfortable.

I am still puzzled by the unwillingness to hang bottles. On the boats you're using, do the tech divers climb the ladder with their stages and deco bottles on? I really haven't seen that on the few boats I've done tech dives from, and it would be very bad practice.

I'm thinking I would like to do a dive with them where we just did skills -- For example, (from the past) he thinks it takes far too long to stow my long hose after it has been fully deployed. I think I might have been a little off-handed with my answer, "In real life we don't restow them, so sidemount does not worry much about that." Perhaps instead, since we were in a training situation, I could have just stowed it down my waist like I do in a BP/W. I think I missed a 'concern' there.

I believe he thinks it would be more efficient to hand me the steel. I am very wary about that, because if it is cold, my hands get numb and I could possibly drop the bottle. I don't like that thought, and I thought that having a rope snapped on it was a good safety measure. And, also, that I got out of the way of the other divers as I completed getting in my rig. I could put a thumb or finger through the ring of the snap . . . I could break a thumb or a finger that way, too.

Do you think that if we did a few drills dives together, and worked through the emergency procedures numerous times, it would help?