Other Divers "Unsure" about the Sidemount setup - How do I present it?

[Jax]

... neither was a hogarthian rig ... or DIR ...

What a system is designed for isn't the same as what it is a good solution for.

I find sidemount to be an optimal solution for many of the dives I do in open water ... particularly for long, deep solo dives. It's a better solution for my photography than slinging a pony for redundant air, because it allows me to get closer to the bottom (and therefore the subject) without the pony tank valve and first stage clunking into the bottom. It's a better solution for trim and buoyancy because of where it puts my CoG ... allowing me to more easily get into optimal positions for shots that I otherwise would have to put more effort to get into wearing a set of manifolded doubles, or a single rig and slung pony.

But the best reason of all ... I feel more comfortable and "natural" underwater in a sidemount rig than in a backmount rig ... irrespective of the environment or type of dive I'm doing.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This deserves a double "LIKE"! :cool3:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You're taking a wreck penetration class and your instructor objects to sidemount?

That I don't get. Wreck penetration is one of the environments where sidemount is more appropriate than backmount.

I'm surprised that a wreck instructor would not be familiar with sidemount. Maybe you should be taking the class from someone who actually penetrates wrecks on a regular basis ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[waterpirate]

I do not know anything about sidemount, but I do know something about being in uniform. Showing up for advanced wreck penetration with an instructor that does not dive sidemount is a huge red flag. At that level the performance expectation is huge, and choosing to not look like everyone else was a choice you made, fight the uphill battle. It is tantamount to going to a team based meeting with a "I dive solo deep air t-shirt on".

You brought this scrutiny on yourself. IMHO if you had taken adv penetration from a sidemount rigged instructor your experiance would have been totally different.
Eric

 

[iztok]

While I would be discussing choice of rig before the class I would assume that choice wouldn't preclude me from successfully taking a class as long as I could demonstrate the skills required and that i can alleviate the concerns of an instructor and hopefully even other students. I would assume a good instructor would work with you and get the issues resolved in a positive manner embracing the differences.

 

[Jax]

You're taking a wreck penetration class and your instructor objects to sidemount?

That I don't get. Wreck penetration is one of the environments where sidemount is more appropriate than backmount.

I'm surprised that a wreck instructor would not be familiar with sidemount. Maybe you should be taking the class from someone who actually penetrates wrecks on a regular basis ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

:lol: Bob . . . Ar-i-zon-a . . . Arizona. All beach, no ocean . . .

"Objects" is not the right word. He expressed a lack of confidence in the way sidemount works. While it was initiated by a guy that came from CA in doubles, I believe it resonated with he and his AI. That whole thing of needing to unclip . . . He said, "I don't think the cave divers do that." Of course, I had to say, yeah, they do (not forcefully . . . I am cognizant that I need to present this better. )

I think, because it is all strange to them, and they do not have confidence, I have to do a better job of presenting it.

Right now, we have a grand total of five 'tec' divers in a 75-mile radius. Two of them are the instructors.

Okay, one is me . . . almost Tec. Haven't passed, yet.

 

[Jax]

I do not know anything about sidemount, but I do know something about being in uniform. Showing up for advanced wreck penetration with an instructor that does not dive sidemount is a huge red flag. At that level the performance expectation is huge, and choosing to not look like everyone else was a choice you made, fight the uphill battle. It is tantamount to going to a team based meeting with a "I dive solo deep air t-shirt on".

You brought this scrutiny on yourself. IMHO if you had taken adv penetration from a sidemount rigged instructor your experiance would have been totally different.
Eric

LOL - Seriously? Eric, I thought you more broad-thinking than that!

"I use sidemount because it is best for me in a doubles-required situation. Why, frankly, is no one's business."

Why can't you readers just accept that?

As for the showing up in attitude . . . I've dived this rig with this instructors dives for over a year. There's no attitude, he knew it coming in, he is simply expressing a lack of confidence as expressed by the other students . . . and by himself, IMO. I have no problem with that. Fair enuff. I OWE him to build that confidence, and owe that to anyone with whom I dive.

"Should've taken . . . sidemount instructor" . . . Do you honestly think I don't know that? Let's see, there's "support your LDS", there's only one LDS, and trusted, experienced sidemount instructors are a state or two away.

You're right, I brought this scrutiny on myself . . . I am happy to do so, and want to represent sidemount the very best I can to my itty-bitty community.

Which IS, by the way, the OP question.

 

[Jax]

So, I agree with Lynne . . . I need to dive with the local guys P and K more.

However, I am thinking of perhaps doing some lake dives with my instructors (ye$, Ouch!) . . . After all, if I don't get their confidence, then bad on me!

Toying with the idea of going to Marianna for doing the dives for training, and come back and redo the cert dives with my local divers to instill confidence.

And, of course, I need to get the heck out to Lake Pleasant (4 hours 1-way) and just practice my butt off. I think I must not be looking skilled.

 

[Jax]

While I would be discussing choice of rig before the class I would assume that choice wouldn't preclude me from successfully taking a class as long as I could demonstrate the skills required and that i can alleviate the concerns of an instructor and hopefully even other students. I would assume a good instructor would work with you and get the issues resolved in a positive manner embracing the differences.

Perfect!!!

That's what we're doing! I just need advice on my end, because, in my PoV, I have failed to present the sidemount rig in a manner that instills confidence.

 

[jar546]

OK Jax, I have a few comments and questions for you:

* It sounds as though your instructor is trying to work with you and not saying that you cannot use side-mount. He is asking you to come up with methods to make the situation more comfortable for him. In this case, he is the instructor who is accepting liability for you. I actually applaud him for working with you rather than telling you that you can't use your method.

* Was any of this discussed before the class began? Did he provide a list of "required equipment"? Did you disclose from the beginning that you would be side-mount? If you did, he should have had a more detailed discussion with you about procedures. If you did not, then shame on you. I would not "assume" that all advanced wreck penetration instructors are or should be experienced side-mount divers. Communication, communication, communication.

* I also think your instructor is trying to help you by asking for you to come up with a good method, especially if the seas are a little rough. Every person has a different opinion as to what is rough and in some areas, they never see flat-calm seas. I understand that you would call the dive if you were not comfortable but still, even a bit of rocking while trying to balance, handle tanks while leaning overboard can be difficult.

* I am glad to see that you are doing what you want to do and are not afraid to show up and look a little different that the others. Some of us may just be a little more conforming and not do or equip ourselves how we really want to. I commend you for sticking to your plan.

 

[Jax]

OK Jax, I have a few comments and questions for you:

* It sounds as though your instructor is trying to work with you and not saying that you cannot use side-mount. He is asking you to come up with methods to make the situation more comfortable for him. In this case, he is the instructor who is accepting liability for you. I actually applaud him for working with you rather than telling you that you can't use your method.

Absolutely pre-discussed, and I did my Advanced Nitrox / Deco Procedures with him in this rig.

* Was any of this discussed before the class began? Did he provide a list of "required equipment"? Did you disclose from the beginning that you would be side-mount? If you did, he should have had a more detailed discussion with you about procedures. If you did not, then shame on you. I would not "assume" that all advanced wreck penetration instructors are or should be experienced side-mount divers. Communication, communication, communication.

Yes, yes, yes. I totally accept that *I* have not represented sidemount appropriately to him.

* I also think your instructor is trying to help you by asking for you to come up with a good method, especially if the seas are a little rough. Every person has a different opinion as to what is rough and in some areas, they never see flat-calm seas. I understand that you would call the dive if you were not comfortable but still, even a bit of rocking while trying to balance, handle tanks while leaning overboard can be difficult.

Exactly! In my case, not just difficult, but every possibility of injury. Nuff said on that, thank you. That part, in particular, is MY problem. He expresses it as a concern for my safety.

Then again, if you have someone on the 'team' that has to call a dive, that is a major negative. Sigh.

* I am glad to see that you are doing what you want to do and are not afraid to show up and look a little different that the others. Some of us may just be a little more conforming and not do or equip ourselves how we really want to. I commend you for sticking to your plan.

You're a sweetheart!

That is why I am here . . . Obviously, others have had to be the first, so I need guidance.

1. Practice my skills until I am freaking flawless! (Damn lake. :cold: )

2. Demonstrate standard skills on land . . . help instill confidence that way.

3. Get the others out on more dives . . . (see lake comment).

4. Get instructors out with me - I would pay for a "private class" on weekends they are up at the :cold: lake, anyway. I am very concerned with sucking up their time.

Thinking 3 and 4 should be reversed . . . If I can get the instructors fully confident, they are better at giving good feedback of why I am not presenting well.

Thoughts?