OOA question. Who is teaching to give your main unit?

[ZenDiver.3D]

Actually, if it were possible, I would of gone diving without the classes.. but it becomes a pain to get air fills and whatnot if you are not certified.. Ohh well..
That explains a lot.


Come to texas. I will show you exactly where the training is held.
Not BS. Its for real. When someone is trying to pull my reg out of my mouth, they are effectively putting themselves before me.. Its my right to put myself exactly where I belong.. Way before them. Trust me. It was taught and I highly agree with it. .But then again, we are from Texas where we have Castle laws that most others dont understand..

Okay, now you can stop. Lived in Longview, half my family members are Texans, don't play that "We are just tougher card with me. You just make Texans like you sound like idiots.

Perhaps I am just meaner than you? I know CPR but know with 100% certainty that I would not use it on anyone other than my wife or kids.. Can you say the same? Doubtful. You have something in you that makes you want to help. I do not have that in my character at all. You may find that a flaw. I do not feel the same. Either way. It matters not to me.

You know, I performed CPR on a child this summer. It would never have entered my head to stand by and watch him die. You better hope and pray that one of your kids or wife is not in need of CPR one day and only people like you are around... Remember Karma is a bitch. You are beyond flawed. And, if it ever comes about, you are definitely not welcome on my boats with that life philosophy. Knives in a OOA situation, refusal to render aid, not a good human here. Or maybe just a troll looking for fun. In either case, a troll, of both types...

I hope that if you are ever in need of CPR for any reason (not just dive related) that the people with you at the time (I doubt you're wife is with you 24/7) don't have the same callous disregard for human life that you seem to possess.

yep!!

Last sentence of course should read:Only thing I would add, I am happy PsychoCabbage wasn't my DM.

Don't worry, if he actually believes all this crap, he would never make DM. Remember, he is only an AOW, according to his profile. Enough said.

 

[SkipperJohn]

I will admit I didn't read all respoonses, but as I see it, you give your main because the other diver is already in trouble and may be running out of time. If your octo is not working quite right it could mean his life so you take a breath, give your main and you have a minute or 2 to get that octo running or if it fails do a share breathing. The other diver may not have had that time or a full set of lungs to deal with any issues.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

In no place do I recall learning to give someone my main reg when I have an Octo. Every octo I have seen comes with a longer hose. My current octo is actually designed to hand off to someone.

I keep seeing posts where people say in an OOA situation you give them YOUR main reg.

NO Way. I am the one giving assistance. You get my octo. I will keep the definate good source. If the octo fails then we can buddy breathe back up but ya... There is no way someone gets the main reg when I have a working Octo.

Now in my (our) case, our mains have 26" lines. The Octos have 34"+ lines. Why would they have such long lines if they were not designed for other people to use?

I have a sneaking suspiscion that its a PADI thing (I am NAUI trained..)

SJ --

First you ensure both your second stages are working before the dive.

Second you secure whichever one you're not using, so it doesn't get sand or grit in it or drag around where you're diving. This keeps it working during the dive.

When a diver approaches you for gas, in a recreational setting, with a recreational rig you donate whichever one is available.

The OP originally was perplexed about donation of the primary regulator - the one the donor is currently using. The OP was unfamiliar with situations in which the primary would be offered first. (Air2 users donate their primary as the Air2 hose is pretty short. Long hose users donate their primary because their secondary is bungied around their throat.)

The OP next addressed situations where the OOA diver resolves the selection decision by going for the regulator in the donors mouth.

Obviously, if you're properly equipped, reasonably calm, comfortable underwater, you practice OOA drills regularly, etc. this is not a huge trauma - you secure whichever alternate secondary remains, thumb the dive, and assist the OOA diver to the surface.

If you're not, however, you draw a knife and prepare to stab whomever might want the second stage you happen to be using at the moment...

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"...Part of my training was how to maintain the control of my main reg. And to understand that my knife was a tool used to keep people from stealing my reg... I would much rather have 1 person float than 2.

Some people are just, well, stupid. They need to learn how to do it right or just quit.

As for my attitude, its spot on.. IMO I am way more important than you. I always will be. My first thought if someone is OOA isnt compassionate...(sic) I really dont care if that upsets you.. My first thought is this person needs to quit diving. I am 100% certain given a crisis situation, those that understand the value of their own lives are the ones that will come out ahead. ...Some people dont need to have compassion.

Again, some people dont need to be diving..."

Brethren, let us read together from the Book of George, Chapter 2, Verse 1:

"WHAT IS A STROKE?" by George Irvine

Very simply put, a "stroke" is somebody you don't want to dive with. It is somebody who will cause you problems, or not be any use to you if you have problems. Usually, this is a reflection of the attitude of a stroke, but that can be inherent in the personality of the individual, or others can teach it.

For instance, if somebody is taught that diving is an "every man for himself" sport, that you "can't help somebody deep," that "my gas is my gas," or "know when to leave your buddy," then that is somebody you do not want to be in the water with. Some people are natural strokes, but all too many are created. Unfortunately, people believe best what they hear first, and given the low-level food chain structure of dive instruction, most strokes are man-made, and are then hard to fix.

Obvious strokes are not so bad - you can see them and you know to avoid them. Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration. If you see something that is a complete mess, makes no sense, is less than optimal, or is designed to accommodate some phobia while ignoring all else, you are dealing with a stroke. If the stroke is pontificating about how he can "handle" deep air diving, or obsessing about depth, or appears to be trying to compensate for internal fears, this is an obvious stroke and you merely avoid them.

The really insidious strokes are those who pretend to be squared away, but are in this game for all the wrong reasons. Usually they wish to prove something to themselves or others, or to overcome some internal fears. These tend to try to do things that they are not ready to do, and when something goes wrong, they flee for their lives.

Diving is not an intuitive thing. It is not a natural thing. Natural reactions of human beings on dry land do not work underwater. To be a good diver, you have to control your natural responses, and know that they can only hurt you, not help you. A stroke cannot do that. A stroke is driven by fear, ego, bull**** and self-concern."


The lesson from this thread is to learn before you buddy up with someone whether they intend to draw a knife on you should you have issues during the dive and need some additional gas from them.
Not everyone thinks like you do.

P.S. to Sdiggy -- who said that learning cannot simultaneously be entertaining?

 

[SDiggy]

The lesson from this thread is to learn before you buddy up with someone whether they intend to draw a knife on you should you have issues during the dive and need some additional gas from them.
Not everyone thinks like you do.

P.S. to Sdiggy -- who said that learning cannot simultaneously be entertaining?

I'm not saying that I'm not learning, I'm just pointing out that it seems that the OP lit a fire and ran, we haven't heard from him in a while.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Brethren, let us read together from the Book of George, Chapter 2, Verse 1

I regret that I have but one thanks to give for your post.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I regret that I have but one thanks to give for your post.

Fear not, for I shall add mine, and I'm not even an ahem, full believer.

Doc dropped the "GI3" bomb, and it was good.

 

[sabbath999]

We were taught to give our main and use our octo or Air2/integrated (whichever you are equipped with). Our instructors recommend either your backup reg bungied around your neck or if you want to use an Air2 or other integrated that is for you and not your buddy.

My class was taught by cave divers, and they personally use the long hose main (as you would have to in a cave environment to trail somebody behind you through obstructions).

We were taught that in OOA situations, a lot of times the first you will know that your buddy or another diver is OOA is when they rip your main out of your mouth... so you need to be ready at all times to go with your octo, and that by having it bungied around your neck (or with Air Integrated) you ALWAYS know where the air you are going to be breathing is coming from.

We were also taught that you should check-breath on your backup every single dive (one instructor even recommends descending using the backup to make SURE it is going to be working) since that is the device you are going to be breathing off of in an emergency.

I am a NOOB so I am only answering the question about what I was taught... I make no statement as to whether what I was taught is right or not.

 

[seaducer]

Wow, what a riveting thread! I have been consdering going to a long hose consideration for some time, the advocates make alot of points I agree with. My config right now is a short hose primary with a long hose octo, and on occasion a slung pony. I figure the OOA diver grabs my primary and I get the octo deployed, then hopefully after a few breaths we can switch to make a more comfortable ascent, or depending I can hand off the pony and follow them at a safe distance. That video was enlightening, not sure that girl slowed down enough to trade regs.

Odds of anyone overpowering me in any situation are highly unlikely...

Hold on there Skippy, unless you are talking about a pro wrestling match where you paid off the script writer, you gots some figuring to do.
When I was fresh out of the military I had a similarly incorrect view. Here I was, 6'5", 215ish, worked out 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, spent 4 years as an Infantryman, with most of the last year working near daily with some people from 1st Special Forces group. I know more ways to kill you with my bare hands than Jack Bauer does. So I go surfing with some old buddies. One of em brings his sister and her friends. Cute girls, (not that kind of cute you pervs!:moonerone of 15, maybe 105 pounds wet, barely strong enough to control the back blast from her hair drier gets put through spin cycle on a wave she didn't see coming and thought she was going to drown. She climbed on top of me, the big tough soldier with hands as lethal as Ginzu knives, and I'll be damned if she didn't almost drown me before someone else managed to get her calming down some. Lesson? Don't bet your life that you are tougher than the next person, especially if that person is particularly motivated.

Now on to the OOA scenario.. Part of my training was how to maintain the control of my main reg..
And to understand that my knife was a tool used to keep people from stealing my reg.

Ah, I see. Well, to put it bluntly, pulling your knife on someone with some hand to hand combat training is the same thing as saying " Here, take my reg, whichever you choose, and all my air, whilst I lay peacefully bleeding". As for the typical OOA diver, youll never have the chance to go for the knife until after the situation gets under control. Thats called murder, and you can spend the rest of your life in a little cage thinking about it. In Texas, that will be a short stay I reckon...

 

[sabbath999]

Here I was, 6'5", 215ish, worked out 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, spent 4 years as an Infantryman, with most of the last year working near daily with some people from 1st Special Forces group. I know more ways to kill you with my bare hands than Jack Bauer does.

For a second there I was thinking, "wow, this guy is Chuck Norris himself!"