OOA Buddy starts to drag you up by your octo - What would you do?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Now that we're talking nice again, my concern with the long hose relates to it's use around divers who aren't trained in it's use. During a rescue class I observed a training exercise during which an instructor signaled OOA to a student. The student attempted to deploy the long hose, had some issues and both spent extra time without a reg. If the OOA diver was really and truly OOA, the delay could have caused panic leading to an ugly little CF. Not good. I compare this to the Classic octo scenario, with the golden triangle placement that allows the OOA to get to the air without any input by the doner. The doner keeps thier reg, at least one diver isn't OOA. Simple, and it's what students are trained to do.
To save time, training sucks, the big agencies are all corrupt, yada, yada, but that's the system we got. Make your plans accordingly.
I'll buy the long hose, based on the environment and dive conditions, but I wouldn't use it if I didn't know the divers around me were trained in it's deployment.
I wouldn't use a long hose in a resort environment.
Happy Holidays,

Hmmmm ... have you ever found yourself diving with someone who used an inline backup (i.e. AirII, SS1, etc)?

If so, how did you handle it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redrover]

I’m not arguing the DIR philosophy, not at all!!!!, but I think Nemrod has a good point. In a grab and bolt I think I’d have a hard time ‘gaining’ control from as far away as that (a long hose), wouldn’t take much for a diver to be swifter and stronger than I. ….good food for thought here.

I wish people would stay on point and resist the urge to deride someone personally or insist unfortunate circumstances are prevented by proper planning. Heavens! Isn’t that a core of the DIR philosophy – prepare to deal with things NOT going as planned.

(my emphasis)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefHound
Don't discount the value of keyboard problem solving. It certainly doesn't replace actual training and practice, but mentally rehearsing procedures can be beneficial in allowing you to react calmly and rationally.

Not really ... the problem won't be an intellectual exercise when it happens. You will be severely task-loaded ... to the point where you may or may not be able to think about something that was discussed on an Internet forum.

In-water practice at dealing with multiple issues while maintaining control is essential to handling problems like this one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think there is value in keyboard learning. It makes me think about things and can possibly provide a quick mental reach and grab solution. Not that practical education isn’t good but it’s a bit difficult to learn all there is to know on the very first dive. Well, for me it is anyway.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Excellent post and very well stated. Running out of air, when you did not expect it, usually pushes people over that threshold. Running out from a known problem usually does not.

If your "buddy" is dragging you to the surface, your buddy is way over that threshhold and all of the nice, organized, planned stuff is all gone.

It always amazes me to see people discuss how they would act, in a panic situation.

They don't dump air on the accent, they don't ask for a regulator. And they are strong... stronger than you would ever imagine..I've had 100 lb ladies leave bruises from where they grabbed me, actual finger marks. And they can swim fast, if you cannot stop them. And a long hose is not your friend in that situation. Don't believe me? Would be happy to show you what happens.

A controlled OOA situation, everyone is nice, patient, and controlled. If that is the situation, then donate the primary, and relax on the way to the surface. If someone grabs your primary and heads to the surface, that is panic, and both you and them are in danger. Only embolism I have ever seen was from just such an event, but his buddy let him go because he did not know how to slow him down.

This is true to a point. There is a threshold where panic sets in. Once you pass that threshold, you operate on basic insticnt, not the drilled procedures and training. The goal of training and expierence is to push that threshold farther away so you can handle more stressors prior to hitting that threshold.

Fundementally, the goal is to prevent panic and address the stressors prior to the onset of panic. A diver who is in trouble, but not panicked, has a lot of options. A diver who is in trouble and panics underwater has few options. That panicked diver also places not only themselves, but those around them at a much higher risk.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I’m not arguing the DIR philosophy, not at all!!!!, but I think Nemrod has a good point. In a grab and bolt I think I’d have a hard time ‘gaining’ control from as far away as that (a long hose), wouldn’t take much for a diver to be swifter and stronger than I. ….good food for thought here.

Actually, having a long hose in that situation is a benefit because the panicked diver can be away from you. You would have a tough time controlling them, which is why ocean lifeguards carry a "can", to keep some space between them and a swimmer who might be panicking. Not all long hose users are DIR.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Puff, again, great post addressing one of the main issues here.

 

[Soggy]

I’m not arguing the DIR philosophy, not at all!!!!, but I think Nemrod has a good point. In a grab and bolt I think I’d have a hard time ‘gaining’ control from as far away as that (a long hose), wouldn’t take much for a diver to be swifter and stronger than I. ….good food for thought here.

No, he doesn't have a good point at all. It's been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, but never seems to sink in.

Having a 7' hose does not require you to stay 7' away from a buddy during a gas share

 

[rongoodman]

I’m not arguing the DIR philosophy, not at all!!!!, but I think Nemrod has a good point. In a grab and bolt I think I’d have a hard time ‘gaining’ control from as far away as that (a long hose), wouldn’t take much for a diver to be swifter and stronger than I. ….good food for thought here.

I wish people would stay on point and resist the urge to deride someone personally or insist unfortunate circumstances are prevented by proper planning. Heavens! Isn’t that a core of the DIR philosophy – prepare to deal with things NOT going as planned.

The long hose is part of the standard Hogarthian set-up, used by DIR divers but by non-DIR folks as well. The pros and cons of DIR aren't really relevant here.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Should I capitalize mine response too Soggy?

 

[Soggy]

Should I capitalize mine response too Soggy?

Sure...have fun. I used size=7, for the 7' hose.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I didn't call it a 7' hose because I don't like to discriminate but I changed it back because no matter how loud you are sometimes, some people just don't hear you.