old school or young fool?

[H2Andy]

i'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than Nova saying,
I don't need DIR to be a better diver

ok...

great...

next?

 

[SDAnderson]

I'm a non-DIR diver who has never taken a GUE class and looks upon them as born-again schismatics to the Hogarthian minimalist truths, but I'd like to take a swing at some of the fungoes you're trying to stir the pot with...

1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

Since when do the DIR divers place their SPG on the right hip? Good critique requires that you at least get your facts straight. More to the point, it's easy enough to check your gas with the SPG on the left hip and if your buddy needs to know how much gas you have, he can ask. Besides, a good buddy won't need to ask and a good diver won't need to check more than a couple of times during a dive. This isn't a concept unique to the schismatics, but a well thought out Hog idea.

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

Having a detailed understanding of how your partners are rigged may obviate the need for your slasher tactics. Sure, in some situations it might be easier/faster/better to hack a rig off but making mindless rules like "just get to cutting" is dumb and dangerous. Again, this isn't DIR, it's just good skills and common sense.

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

First, a question: Such as? Second, a thought: Your inability to caculate RB would indicate a processor deficiency that explains a lot. Finally, not that it matters but I was under the impression that the heavy reliance on RB calculations was increasingly passe amongst the DIR community.

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

I think the DIR/GUE crowd would be the first to acknowledge that it's dangerous to make an assumption like you're accusing them of, so your point seems to be little more than a gratuitous and inaccurate swipe. Aside from that, I think it's a fair assumption that a GUE trained diver has a better skill set than the average diver, even if you sometimes have to stick a sock in their mouths to stop the preaching.

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

Most pony bottles are insufficient as a redundant air source principally due to size - though if you're talking about 40cf (or larger) bottles, they may be acceptable, in limited circumstances. In many instances, divers needing spare air really need doubles or a functional buddy. This, again, is not a concept unique to DIR/GUE divers but should be familiar to anyone: half-measures typically produce half-assed results.

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

I'm going to have to wash my hands - but I almost agree with you: solo diving is suitable for divers willing to take the additional risk, develop the additional skills, use the additional equipment and accept the limitations. That's not the same as "everyone should be able to solo dive" but it's certainly not a blanket prohibition, either. Self-reliance is critical but a good team is always safer - you've got more gear, more gas and more ideas to fall back on in an emergency. The trick might be in finding divers you can successfully integrate and synchronize your skills with. Aside from the time required to develop a good buddy, you've also got to have some social skills.

there is more, but that should do for now. no need to get into gasses , decos or any other issues that come to mind

I'd like to close with this thought: there are a lot of GUE trained divers that complain about the fact that anyone who wants to be DIR can simply lay claim to that sobriquet. Well, unfortunately, the same is true for Hog divers. Additionally, one of the biggest complaints about DIR divers is that they can be inflammatory and dogmatic. You're living proof that this isn't a characteristic unique to the dark hordes and I'd love it if you'd stop silting up the neighborhood. Get thee back under the bridge. Please.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

i'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than Nova saying,
I don't need DIR to be a better diver

ok...

great...

next?

Well...we did learn that "critical failure' means "could be done better". :11:

 

[Bobby]

Well I am going to jump in just for fun. First let me say Reefraf very nice and thought out response.

K lets review, yes I solo dive and I am convinced there are some situtions that are better done solo.

Solo is not for everyone and you must modify your gear, mindset, and exceptance of your situation before you take up that direction.

I dive with DIR and non-DIR divers on a regular basis and the crap on the net is not out there in the diving world for 99% of it.

GI3 started this crap a long time ago and it has grown old a long time ago just as he did. Halcyon and GUE are still going along and doing their thing hopefully for a long time to come.

Now the fun part, my set up:

SPG on the right hip with D-ring

Light can on left hip w/ 6c.u.ft. argon next to it if needed. buckle to hold it in place

Waiste strap buckle w/ left hand release on right side of strap

Full mix putters on right arm w/ arm slate for short notes or messages

No D-ring on left side

Light cord wrapped around left arm and on left hand

2nd safety on butt mount D-ring

1st safety and jump/gaps in bellows pocket

Wet notes, spare mask, back up tables in bellows pocket

O2 on right side, second deco on left, & stages spread even and 5th stage on butt D-ring

Anything more than 5 stages switch to set up dives

Side mount only change is light can mounted to back D-rings on rig instead of waiste strap

Have fun all and if you have questions why just ask

Bobby

 

[nova]

i'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than Nova saying,
I don't need DIR to be a better diver

ok...

great...

next?

nobody needs to be DIR to be a better diver . A hog rig and a cavern course is what it takes. all very basic, all well thought out, all very safe. and you can use the skills in any environment. On top of that it doesn't come with all the ego , just good old fashion skills

 

[EIGHTWGT]

nobody needs to be DIR to be a better diver . A hog rig and a cavern course is what it takes. all very basic, all well thought out, all very safe. and you can use the skills in any environment. On top of that it doesn't come with all the ego , just good old fashion skills

Well said Nova.....

Now that would have been a better way to start and title the thread friend. Your thread got a lil carried away is all....

I agree - I dive a hog rig, and took a cavern class with Johnny Richards....and Im a better diver for it for sure.....

Maybe this thread will tone down a lil now :14:

 

[nova]

Well said Nova.....

Now that would have been a better way to start and title the thread friend. Your thread got a lil carried away is all....

I agree - I dive a hog rig, and took a cavern class with Johnny Richards....and Im a better diver for it for sure.....

Maybe this thread will tone down a lil now :14:

Sometimes (on SB) you need to seperate the wheat from the chaf to get to a kernel of truth.

once a diver knows the value of a hog rig it's hard to go back to jacket diving, while there is a need for basic open water divers to wear a jacket , any advanced form of diving can be improved with the right gear . I find that the hog rig is the right gear and cavern training is the right education. It places the right value on the invironment,skills and safety. While other courses improve a divers skill ,the cavern course answers the question of "WHY" . Why does the gear need to be like it is. Why do I use this kick . Why do I plan like this. and it leaves out the "one size fits all" mentality. I also find that it helps with the dive your doing today not what you MIGHT do tomarrow.

 

[nova]

Well I am going to jump in just for fun. First let me say Reefraf very nice and thought out response.

K lets review, yes I solo dive and I am convinced there are some situtions that are better done solo.

Solo is not for everyone and you must modify your gear, mindset, and exceptance of your situation before you take up that direction.

I dive with DIR and non-DIR divers on a regular basis and the crap on the net is not out there in the diving world for 99% of it.

GI3 started this crap a long time ago and it has grown old a long time ago just as he did. Halcyon and GUE are still going along and doing their thing hopefully for a long time to come.

Now the fun part, my set up:

SPG on the right hip with D-ring

Light can on left hip w/ 6c.u.ft. argon next to it if needed. buckle to hold it in place

Waiste strap buckle w/ left hand release on right side of strap

Full mix putters on right arm w/ arm slate for short notes or messages

No D-ring on left side

Light cord wrapped around left arm and on left hand

2nd safety on butt mount D-ring

1st safety and jump/gaps in bellows pocket

Wet notes, spare mask, back up tables in bellows pocket

O2 on right side, second deco on left, & stages spread even and 5th stage on butt D-ring

Anything more than 5 stages switch to set up dives

Side mount only change is light can mounted to back D-rings on rig instead of waiste strap

Have fun all and if you have questions why just ask

Bobby

sound like your left handed.and all tasks are done with your dominate hand

 

[pants!]

Sometimes (on SB) you need to seperate the wheat from the chaf to get to a kernel of truth.

once a diver knows the value of a hog rig it's hard to go back to jacket diving, while there is a need for basic open water divers to wear a jacket , any advanced form of diving can be improved with the right gear . I find that the hog rig is the right gear and cavern training is the right education. It places the right value on the invironment,skills and safety. While other courses improve a divers skill ,the cavern course answers the question of "WHY" . Why does the gear need to be like it is. Why do I use this kick . Why do I plan like this. and it leaves out the "one size fits all" mentality. I also find that it helps with the dive your doing today not what you MIGHT do tomarrow.

I'm a little fuzzy on one thing.

How exactly do you know what a GUE course offers versus a cavern course?

 

[nova]

I'm a little fuzzy on one thing.

How exactly do you know what a GUE course offers versus a cavern course?

by the look of the cat fight on the DIR forum it involves a nose and a foul smelling orifice. if being "in" means putting up with bovine scat then I'm out. And their course profile is online