old school or young fool?

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nova:
by the look of the cat fight on the DIR forum it involves a nose and a foul smelling orifice. if being "in" means putting up with bovine scat then I'm out. And their course profile is online
I don't think you've answered my question, which was about the actual content of GUE courses.

How, exactly, do you know what is and what is not taught in a GUE course well enough for you to compare it to an NSS course?
 
pants!:
I don't think you've answered my question, which was about the actual content of GUE courses.

How, exactly, do you know what is and what is not taught in a GUE course well enough for you to compare it to an NSS course?
it's not a secret decoder ring type class. and the GUE cert buddies I dive with don't treat it like a big secret either . The secret society of DIR, DUDE that cracks me up. Now I can't tell you about my hog rig, because I'm keeping it a secret. LOL
 
I don't know about DIR classes as I have never taken one. On the other hand there IS a lot of information flying around.
For me one aspect that I think probably could make a huge impact is the use of video, and the critical analysis of that video. It's hard to see how anyone who has never actually been through that particular process could make a judgement about how effective it is. It seems to me you'd have to experience it first hand to know.
 
nova:
it's not a secret decoder ring type class. and the GUE cert buddies I dive with don't treat it like a big secret either . The secret society of DIR, DUDE that cracks me up. Now I can't tell you about my hog rig, because I'm keeping it a secret. LOL
You're telling me that you've dived with GUE divers who have told you, directly, that their GUE courses did not cover any of the "why's" of DIR?
 
pants!:
You're telling me that you've dived with GUE divers who have told you, directly, that their GUE courses did not cover any of the "why's" of DIR?
Nooooooo, I'm telling you I've had long talks with my dive buddies and we have compared training techniques of the different agencies.

and I agree with the post that talks about the value of filming the diver. If a picture says a thousand words then a film says it all.
 
nova:
Nooooooo, I'm telling you I've had long talks with my dive buddies and we have compared training techniques of the different agencies.

and I agree with the post that talks about the value of filming the diver. If a picture says a thousand words then a film says it all.
What, then, does an OW diver learn in a cavern class that he does not learn in a GUE class that is appropriate for OW diving (for example, running a reel does not apply)?

The only thing I've gathered so far from this entire thread is that you feel GUE leaves out the "why's"
 
pants!:
What, then, does an OW diver learn in a cavern class that he does not learn in a GUE class that is appropriate for OW diving (for example, running a reel does not apply)?

The only thing I've gathered so far from this entire thread is that you feel GUE leaves out the "why's"
You've never run a reel in open water? it's great for finding the anchor line in bad viz. That would come under "enter and exit at the same spot"

does DIR-F teach five finning techniques. because I only see the DIR crew use one.
do you even know what a pull and glide is ?

Do you dump from the rear dump all the time in open water.This is a nice technique for entering a chimney type cave or a wreck headfirst.

If I shine my light on something and make a circle, do you know how to respond?

all this and more is available if you know the secret handshake. LOL
 
nova:
You've never run a reel in open water? it's great for finding the anchor line in bad viz. That would come under "enter and exit at the same spot"
No I haven't.....

does DIR-F teach five finning techniques. because I only see the DIR crew use one.
Frog, mod frog, mod flutter, helicopter, and reverse... I use them all... my buddies use them all.. the frog is of course the best general purpose kick though..

do you even know what a pull and glide is ?
Did they teach you how to pull on things in cavern..?

Do you dump from the rear dump all the time in open water.This is a nice technique for entering a chimney type cave or a wreck headfirst.
I use the rear dump most of the time... not all of the time though.. both are used in GUE classes...

If I shine my light on something and make a circle, do you know how to respond?
This is taught in GUE classes as well.. multiple light signals are taught in GUE classes and covered in GUE materials.

So, back to my question.. what is taught in cavern that you don't get in a GUE class..?
 
nova:
1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

there is more, but that should do for now. no need to get into gasses , decos or any other issues that come to mind


Nova you state these things are critical failures. You also state you dive a hog rig. So I would imagine you consider yourself Holgarthian. If that is the case, I dont understand something about this post. These things you state are critical failures are hogarthian as well as DIR! These are the things that Main and Gavin incorparated into what is Hogarthian Diving. So while you lash out at DIR which by the way I'am not, your "critical failures" become your own according to you if you are a true hogarthian diver. So whats your point. If you dont like DIR and hogarthian way of diving then dont do it. For those that do, so what is it you. Also I do consider myself a hogarthian diver. The diving I do, my planning, choice of buddies and such is no different than the dir crowd. So they are really not all that different. See my point here.
 

Did they teach you how to pull on things in cavern..?


come on now......The pull and glide is listed in many cavern /cave diving books ......

This thread is going no place guys.......
 
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