Observed an OW class yesterday

[Trace Malinowski]

I respect the opinions of those who want open water students performing better in open water. But, keep in mind that open water dives are not so much a test as they are a continuation of class. When I was taught to be a PDIC instructor if a student used his or her hands it was a "no go" for open water classes. This was fairly easy to correct over 6 to 8 pool sessions spanning 1 night a week for more than a month. But, now many students get just 3 pool sessions and instructors allow more bad habits to enter the open water sessions.

Instructors with high standards may not necessarily pass students on their first go-round. Too many do, so we assume every open water diver is getting a card. Some instructors, like myself, prefer teaching in confined water so you'll see my students setting up for Pool 1 at a dive site. However, I'm also mindful that people are there to dive at sites and try to keep my people out of the way and we definitely stay off the bottom. I use ramps and platforms until they are ready to progress to open water dives.

I became an DM in 1988 and an instructor in 1989 at PDIC HQ. I taught old-fashioned USN style open water classes for 14 years until I started teaching tech around 2003. Since then it has been another 14 years teaching scuba diving based upon the skills I learned in GUE fundies and other tech and cave classes. I can honestly say that I cannot always get my OW students to dive like helicopters/fundies students. When I can't, I try making them into good little fixed-wing pilots/traditional OW divers. If they can't do that they don't pass.

 

[Joneill]

I find it over rated. In fact, during the last 20 feet in open ocean, I ask my students to get vertical and spin while looking for props headed their way as they ascend. The speed of your ascent should be a function of your breathing.

Sure - but trim is still of use in controlling ascent/descent as well - especially for new divers who may not have dialed in their weight yet or who need to enter negative in a current. I try to ascend/descend in good horizontal trim and definitely hold my safety stop in horizontal trim (which is how I dive on the bottom) - it's a good way practice to use breath control to hold depth without any real point of reference other than the depth display on the dive computer. Before I start the final ascent from my safety stop, I will look around and then rotate to a more vertical position for that last 15 feet or so.

 

[The Chairman]

This was fairly easy to correct over 6 to 8 pool sessions spanning 1 night a week for more than a month. But, now many students get just 3 pool sessions and instructors allow more bad habits to enter the open water sessions.

Trace, most of my students do only two pool sessions and they don't scull. I teach rather small classes of 1 to 4, so I don't bore my students with needless wait times. I teach neutral buoyancy from the first time they are on Scuba. I don't save it for last like most instructors. Once they get that down, and it might be most of the first session, then we can move on to everything else. You know what? Once they are comfortable being neutral in the water, then learning the other skills takes no time at all. Everything is taught and practiced mid water, so that by the time the second session is over they really have it down and they look good. My goal is to turn out students ready to start a cavern class in terms of trim, buoyancy and confidence. I don't set the bar higher: I set it more neutral.

 

[Steve_C]

I have had more than one instabuddy who had on rental gear and had the dangles but there was no clip to attache things with. I just lend them a couple spare clips, octo holders, I carry with me. Sometimes it is the shops fault that rents the gear.

 

[The Chairman]

Sure - but trim is still of use in controlling ascent/descent as well

I teach students to "skydive" down to the bottom, but using their breath control to speed or retard their descent. It's easy, but it's not quick. I've posted this before, but my students graduate from the pool by demonstrating the following. Setting their BC to neutral (Head just awash at the surface with a normal breath), they breathe themselves down by exhaling and stopping their descent by inhaling. They then breathe themselves to the surface using "super breaths" (never occluding their airway) and repeat this a total of three times. Then in six foot of water, where it's hardest, they have to pick up two pound weights and breathe themselves neutral. Men have to be able to handle 6 pounds and women need to be able to handle 4 (smaller lungs). Then we spend some time building structures with those two pound weights. If they really have it down, I have them breathe the weights to the surface. Now THAT'S difficult, but a few can do. My divers have a great grasp of controlling their depth with their breathing before they get to graduate from the pool. I've only had three students who couldn't handle this and two were already certified. It's not that hard.

 

[dmaziuk]

And that's a bad thing?....ruh-roh

What's a check book? Is that like from back when we had to bang two rocks together to make ones and zeroes?

 

[Joneill]

I teach students to "skydive" down to the bottom, but using their breath control to speed or retard their descent. It's easy, but it's not quick. I've posted this before, but my students graduate from the pool by demonstrating the following. Setting their BC to neutral (Head just awash at the surface with a normal breath), they breathe themselves down by exhaling and stopping their descent by inhaling. They then breathe themselves to the surface using "super breaths" (never occluding their airway) and repeat this a total of three times. Then in six foot of water, where it's hardest, they have to pick up two pound weights and breathe themselves neutral. Men have to be able to handle 6 pounds and women need to be able to handle 4 (smaller lungs). Then we spend some time building structures with those two pound weights. If they really have it down, I have them breathe the weights to the surface. Now THAT'S difficult, but a few can do. My divers have a great grasp of controlling their depth with their breathing before they get to graduate from the pool. I've only had three students who couldn't handle this and two were already certified. It's not that hard.

Sounds very comprehensive and, other than the weight exercises (which seem like a good exercises as long as no one holds their breath ), in line with how I was taught in the pool. By skydive, I assume you mean flared out in horizontal trim - which is what I do after the initial exhale to begin descent (vertical at the surface, flaring to horizontal as I pass about 6 feet and established descent).

 

[dmaziuk]

Worst accident ended up with a diver doing a face plant into the boat as her console caught on the dock as she boarded. That ended her week of diving. I have been present a few times when danglies got caught as people exited the boat to start their dive. Both giant stride and backroll

My instructor called it holding on to your junk.

But once I'm in the water I let go and let it dangle all over the place. Sort 'em out on the way down. I think I have my danglies under control, do they still count then?

 

[Doby45]

Sounds very comprehensive and, other than the weight exercises (which seem like a good exercises as long as no one holds their breath ), in line with how I was taught in the pool. By skydive, I assume you mean flared out in horizontal trim - which is what I do after the initial exhale to begin descent (vertical at the surface, flaring to horizontal as I pass about 6 feet and established descent).

This is me going down that line you see to the left. The whole "skydive" descent is the coolest thing to me.. Just so happened I had posted this on another post recently.

 

[dmaziuk]

2. It assumes a high failure rate in education is a good thing. It isn't. In a well designed curriculum, students who have the required prerequisite skills and who put in the required time and effort in the amount of time designed for course completion should complete the course satisfactorily. If there is a high failure rate in a course with properly screened students who are giving the expected effort...

In other words, you're saying some people shouldn't be allowed to dive.

I think many of them shouldn't be allowed to live, or at lest breed since they're here already and killing 'em's illegal, so I can't in all fairness argue, but: there is a slight practical problem with that. It's a pretty good ideal to aspire to.