Observed an OW class yesterday

[Caveeagle]

Enthusiastic students will generally aspire to meet your standards. ..No matter how low you set them.

Class I observed this past weekend, were doing drills kneeling on a submerged platform. Several looked obviously over-weighted. Once again.. class was set up with at least two "waves" of divers. This is not a model designed to maximize skills for new divers. (just my opinion), but it's designed to efficiently help an instructor check off on minimum requirements in the minimum amount of time. I know we are not going to fix this by bitching on forums.. but maybe we can get a few new divers to put more effort into finding a better instructor that will commit more time to the effort.

 

[The Chairman]

If you can achieve that 100% of the time with OW divers then you are clearly the greatest instructor to walk the planet.

I find that the fewer bad habits and misconceptions my students have, the easier my job is. That way I only have to show them how to do it right rather than break them of doing it wrong. I usually turn someone into a diver with only two pool sessions. All skills are done neutral, because they are taught that way. My students don't get to kneel, stand or lie on the bottom of the pool. Ever. You aren't the first person to not believe me, but my students do. The dive ops who have my people on their boat believe me. Some of my earliest critics now believe me because they gave it a chance. It's just not that hard. BTW, I teach for NASE, and they require all skills to be done neutral as well. They don't specify no kneeling in the pool, but you're not allowed to kneel in OW.

 

[HantsDiver]

I'm on the iPad travelling so no access to standards right this minute. Closest I have is this Learn to scuba dive | Get your scuba certification | Scuba diving lessons | Online scuba training | Learn to dive rebreathers | Scuba diving schools | Scuba vacations | Underwater photography | Diver training program there's a bit about buoyancy halfway down.

How recent was the conversation with Paul? He as an owner is as close to the horses mouth as it gets, if there's been a change post RSTC then I need to check. Won't change my standards but would be good to know.

Not that long ago. He was at an inland site playing with rebreathers. He explained that it was the aim to get all divers with great trim and buoyancy. But it wasn't explicitly a standard, but rather an emphasis. Which is fair enough. The point being that it isn't always possible to do with OW trainees. So if the student is not in perfect trim they can still pass. I know that some skills can certainly be done contacting the bottom.

 

[The Chairman]

Trim is also useful on ascent and descent to help control the rate of either, no?

I find it over rated. In fact, during the last 20 feet in open ocean, I ask my students to get vertical and spin while looking for props headed their way as they ascend. The speed of your ascent should be a function of your breathing.

So if the student is not in perfect trim they can still pass.

Not in my class. It's just too easy and important to achieve.

 

[RainPilot]

I was explicitly told that the students may kneel for the first attempt at an exercise in CW only, if they were having issues getting the sequence of actions. However they needed to be able to do them neutral before graduation from CW.

I am far from being a great dive instructor but have never needed to do the kneeling thing with anyone yet. Remember they only know it's hard if you tell them it's hard...

I'll check with Mark when he is here in a few days, and give feedback.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I am far from being a great dive instructor but have never needed to do the kneeling thing with anyone yet.
.

Oh great and you have me coming to train with you . J/K

 

[Diving Dubai]

I don't feel qualified to comment on the actual PADI standards as I haven't completed my IDC.

However, I have watched new students in teh pool during CW 3,4 &5 maintain neutral buoyancy. This pool is only 8' deep which means it's not easy.

I know this because during my DM course I struggled at first being hold trim and stay neutral in such shallow water whilst demonstrating skills. I normally see this depth only twice on a dive. Once going down and then coming up.

What was particularly frustrating to me is that I hold a BSAC Black cert for buoyancy - a deviation of no more than +/- 0.3m (11"?) while carrying out a task.

So yes, (from my albeit limited experience) Instructors do teach students to be neutral in the big bad world, although as we know there are good and bad in all the organisations

 

[lv2dive]

Well, I might know something about fundies, having taken it more than once, and videotaped a couple of instructors teaching multiple classes. (Cave2/Tech2 for a couple of years now)

Something to consider is that it may be easier to teach someone correctly from the beginning (OW class), than to break them of years of bad habits (fundies).

The fallacy is that you or ANY instructor can produce divers (regularly) with great trim and buoyancy in an introductory open water class. I'm not sure if you know about fundamentals but it aims to do just that - except it's for more experienced divers. I can email you the standards if you want. They are not teaching gas switching - but simply doing basic skills (far less than padi) with good trim and buoyancy. Which respectfully is what you claimed you were doing with your students.

High failure rates are not assumed. They just either fail or provisional you if you can't do it properly. Both you and gov said you could get students to do these things easily... Which I'm going to again say is either wrong or you are the best instructors the world has ever known.

 

[Bubblesong]

People watching is a habit of mine. And, boy, was this good people watching. This was most definitely a WTF are these people doing? moment.

I know I'm a Sinner when I sit in church mentally critiquing outfits instead of listening to the sermon, (why don't people check their rear view anymore?)
But In SCUBA, it is no Sin to be observing and learning, from both the pulled together and the falling apart.

 

[idocsteve]

I thought you're SUPPOSED to drag your gauges along the bottom that way you can find your way back to your entrance point.