Observed an OW class yesterday

[The Chairman]

it's not a bad idea to identify the person who's possibly going to ruin your fun.

To clarify, this has nothing to do with elitism but survival. Divers who are present during an accident often never dive again. They may not have had a thing to do with the accident, but they are negatively affected, nonetheless.

 

[Bubblesong]

An 18 year old, that went to Spring Break in Costa Rica with parents, snorkeled with guides that encouraged him to "Ride the Giant Sea Turtle" and "Grab Pufferfish so they puff up".
My daughter and I asked him about not abusing Sea Life and he said, "I know but I wasn't going to miss that opportunity".
After we got done talking to him, he will not harass Sea Life again, but this kind of social change requires observing it happened, talking about it, JUDGING the public nuisances within an inch of their lives, and getting the best message out to the public consistently.
Judge me judgmental, I can take it!

 

[lermontov]

it's not a bad idea to identify the person who's possibly going to ruin your fun.

theres a difference between watching/observing others in order to critique and pull down and observing so the you can get a clue as to where they are at in their own self awareness. If Im diving with instabuddy on a dive i watch carefully to see how they prep them selves and assemble their gear it just gives me information, when were in water I watch trim and buoyancy are they relaxed etc or thrashing around and going too fast- its more about not allowing myself to get into tricky situations or going to places that i dont think my buddy is comfortable with - for my own safeties sake as much as anything
If they are struggling I try to help or make suggestions at SI but it really depends on how its suggested or if theyre receptive - if they are non responsive then i leave them to it.
Dive instructors do this sort of assessment all the time. the differance is they are being paid to critique and or encourage

 

[2airishuman]

My only niggle is that perhaps we should not judge the "typical divers" who do NOT put a great deal of thought and energy into making choices. Like you, I believe all the debate, analysis and introspection that goes on here is good, but I try to be cautious about judging all those other divers out there who simply do not believe that "pursuing excellence" is important. Most of them are having fun, not dying, and not even tearing up the reef as much as we here might be led to believe.

I agree with all of that, and I especially agree that the importance of some of the ScubaBoard shibboleths are overrated.

For most people, being an expert or even highly skilled is not worth the effort, and if the effort interferes with their fun, you know which path they are going to follow. And I also agree with your philosophy about not ridiculing or judging someone that may not be performing up to our hopes or expectations, but is having fun. Just having fun is underrated!

I agree with all of that, too, and it leads to some interesting philosophical questions about breadth vs. depth of life experiences. It also leads to some interesting philosophical questions about how safe and accomplished someone has to be before we are willing to dive with them, and also about how safe and accomplished someone should be to be permitted to dive.

I agree with this. However, it's not a bad idea to identify the person who's possibly going to ruin your fun. Reasons to pay attention to other divers:

1. To identify accidents before they happen.
2. To ID gear so you will better know how to assist them if needed.
3. To broaden your horizons to other methods.
4. To choose the best insta-buddy for you.

More broadly, being able to evaluate other divers helps choose shops, operators, instructors, and buddies.

Marie made her opening post in this thread because she was gobsmacked by what she saw going on in the OWD class. I don't think she was being judgmental. My feeling was that she didn't quite know how to interpret what she saw. I think that many posters on this thread have misinterpreted her astonishment as criticism, leading to some unsupportive posts. I think that the best thing to do, for Marie, and other relative newcomers to diving who encounter the same disconnect, is to provide context, which is what I've tried to do here.

I think it's OK to draw conclusions about the skills of other divers. I think it's OK to act on those conclusions for the safety of all involved and to have a more enjoyable dive. I think it is generally possible to do that without belittling people or putting on airs. I think it is generally OK to discuss this stuff and gain understanding.

 

[Lorenzoid]

An 18 year old, that went to Spring Break in Costa Rica with parents, snorkeled with guides that encouraged him to "Ride the Giant Sea Turtle" and "Grab Pufferfish so they puff up".
My daughter and I asked him about not abusing Sea Life and he said, "I know but I wasn't going to miss that opportunity".
After we got done talking to him, he will not harass Sea Life again, but this kind of social change requires observing it happened, talking about it, JUDGING the public nuisances within an inch of their lives, and getting the best message out to the public consistently.
Judge me judgmental, I can take it!

I, too, am judgmental about other divers who harm the environment I am diving to enjoy. I mentioned this thread to my wife last night, and she reminded me of the environmental horrors we have seen divers inflict. The group of divers in Roatan we saw multiple times break off pieces of coral with careless finning. The girls in Malaysia who posed for a picture standing on top of shelf coral. The divemaster who dislodged a mimic octopus that was buried in the sand, only to have a scorpionfish swoop in and inhale the octopus. I will gladly let my beliefs be known about this kind of behavior, as this is far more egregious behavior to me than people diving with a dangling console, a tank that may or may not slip out, etc.