Observed an OW class yesterday

[Marie13]

One component of dive planning is situational awareness. Identifying hazards that may affect your safety is part of that. Like Pete, on checkout dives part of the time is spent looking at other groups. Who is rushing through their dives, getting into the water with gear unsecured, overweighted, not properly equipped for the temps (saw one instructor take some students through in shorties, instructor was in an old ratty full suit and every one of them came out shivering after 20 minutes of skills. Water temp that day was in the mid 60's), and how they are buddied up.
All of those factors at a training site can have an impact on other's safety, enjoyment, and impression of the activity.
They are also great advertisements for shops and instructors that go the extra mile.

And to piggyback off Jim's comment about advertising...of course, the dive shop I observed (the one with the not-squared away divers) had a big sign out promoting the shop.

 

[Schwob]

Yeah, I spoke it more than I wrote it. Same with my French... not so much with my Russian. I actually studied Russian.

On the bright side, UW, with a reg in your mouth (no comm) it sounds all close enough anyway.

So, curious how often do you teach total beginners? How do you weed out who is ready for your class and who is really not ready? And how do you do that bevore they are all committed already? How hard is it in real live to tell "the overly self confident accident waiting to happen" from the "shy methodical waterscared person that once familiar with what's going on turns into a dive monster"?

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I should clarify.

If someone becomes a diver and later follows the typical progression of required classes to meet the prerequisites to attend an IDC, they may not have their personal skills "there" yet.

Following that progression, there aren't many points along the way where they would have had to be held to a high standard skills wise.

Then they complete an IE, start teaching and will continue the cycle.

I realize that I am painting with a wide brush with my opinion that they can't teach it if they can't do it.
All of us continue learning and progressing, but for the most part I don't feel that the majority of instructors that just go through the pipeline are going to roll out and start teaching completely neutrally buoyant OW classes.

At that point, they have never had to be challenged or evaluated at that level; how would they teach at that level?

I am not trying to sound to harsh toward my fellow instructors out there; because I don't operate under the same shop pressure/timelines that they do.

I only teach small classes 4 or 5 at the most. To be honest, I probably spend too many days on an Open Water class.
Most instructors teaching for a shop are going to face much different timeline pressure than I do.

However, there's always time to get it right and teach students to be neutral from the beginning.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

ScubaBoard is actually a great place to start.

That is true.
More than most people realize.

 

[boulderjohn]

o, curious how often do you teach total beginners? How do you weed out who is ready for your class and who is really not ready? And how do you do that bevore they are all committed already?

I will have the hubris to speak for Pete. Your question assumes that his OW classes require a higher bar for entry than any other OW class. I do not believe they do.

 

[Schwob]

I will have the hubris to speak for Pete. Your question assumes that his OW classes require a higher bar for entry than any other OW class. I do not believe they do.

No problem..., but I did not mean for that to be the thrust of my questions. Although I do think that some instructors set their expectations differently than others. And Pete pointed out his view on buoancy, which I happen to like.
I realize it would have maybe been smarter to ask Pete directly in a PM if I had meant to go there...
And while I also meant to ask Pete, (not to set him up or such) I will try to ask better in a separate thread. For I have a "situation", for which I try to find a place and an instructor... Not right to pirate this thread...

 

[dmaziuk]

Pretty much all courses in all subjects screen to make sure students are qualified to begin the course. It is a waste of time to try to teach students who do not have the prerequisite skills needed to begin instruction.

I suspect there are a few school teachers out there who secretly agree with the "waste of time" part and wish the first sentence were actually true.

 

[The Chairman]

So, curious how often do you teach total beginners?

Not often. I usually do less than a half dozen OW classes a year now. I'm 60 and don't feel the need to teach the entire world to dive.

How do you weed out who is ready for your class and who is really not ready?

I don't. I adapt my class to my student. I've taught people who were afraid of the water. Got one all the way through and the other made it through the pool and stalled in the ocean. In fact, I get a large proportion of problem students sent to me by frustrated instructors from as far away as the PNW and Holland. The only "trick" I use is to introduce trim and buoyancy right at the start.We do a bit of mask clearing in the kiddie pool, but once we put the Scuba unit on, we work from the top down: not the bottom up. Within a half hour they are frog kicking close to the bottom, but not on the bottom. Lots of laps, all designed to get them comfortable. Once they move past the white knuckle stage, we move on to the traditional skills.

How hard is it in real live to tell "the overly self confident accident waiting to happen" from the "shy methodical waterscared person that once familiar with what's going on turns into a dive monster"?

I'm not a confrontational instructor. I don't fight, demean or belittle. I don't try to take peeps down a notch. My worst student was an instructor who thought I was full of crap and wanted to rub my nose in it. He fought me for most of the class and I was frustrated because I could see this as an ego trip for him. He would not fix his trim and tried to show me that he didn't need to. So, I tried something new. We dropped down to the bottom and I would swim to the wall and then back away from the wall using only my fins. He's next to me trying this, but his bad trim made him keep rising and flailing. He would descend and try again, but his poor feet down attitude kept working against him. Oh yeah, he wouldn't meet with me an hour or two before the class to get my vector lecture, so he had all that working against him. When he finally got serious about trim, he started to have fun. I was then able to take him through some of my other exercises. One is called side to side. The student pretends they are looking under a ledge, so they start within a foot of the bottom. They pivot to their left side, kicking only with their right fin. Your left (bottom) fin would be too close to the bottom to kick without stirring things up. Two kicks and they spin to be on their right side, kicking with only their left fin. This increases control and confidence. Some get it only two laps, some need four. At this point, he had stopped fighting me and got it in two. FWIW, I teach my trim, buoyancy and propulsion class to instructors for free. Usually, it's centered around them learning how to teach OW off the knees. He wants to come back with a fresh mind to see how I do it. I will probably ask him to come when I'm teaching and just observe. I love pool work. That wasn't fun for me at all.

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect there are a few school teachers out there who secretly agree with the "waste of time" part and wish the first sentence were actually true.

Speaking as a long time teacher and school administrator...

High failure rates in school include several issues that are different from (or sometimes similar to) scuba instruction.

1. Student motivation: School students are too often motivated by things are than their subjects. Often those subjects are pharmaceutical in nature. Scuba students usually really want to be there.
2. Prerequisite skills: Students who have not succeeded in the required course prior to the one they are taking will not be equipped to succeed. Unfortunately, research shows that repeating that failed course does not work, either, for it further destroys motivation.

 

[Schwob]

Not often. I usually do less than a half dozen OW classes a year now. I'm 60 and don't feel the need to teach the entire world to dive.

I don't. I adapt my class to my student. I've taught people who were afraid of the water. Got one all the way through and the other made it through the pool and stalled in the ocean. In fact, I get a large proportion of problem students sent to me by frustrated instructors from as far away as the PNW and Holland. The only "trick" I use is to introduce trim and buoyancy right at the start.We do a bit of mask clearing in the kiddie pool, but once we put the Scuba unit on, we work from the top down: not the bottom up. Within a half hour they are frog kicking close to the bottom, but not on the bottom. Lots of laps, all designed to get them comfortable. Once they move psat the white knuckle stage, we move on to the traditional skills.

I'm not a confrontational instructor. I don't fight, demean or belittle. I don't try to take peeps down a notch. My worst student was an instructor who thought I was full of crap and wanted to rub my nose in it. He fought me for most of the class and I was frustrated because I could see this as an ego trip for him. He would not fix his trim and tried to show me that he didn't need to. So, I tried something new. We dropped down to the bottom and I would swim to the wall and then back away from the wall using only my fins. He's next to me trying this, but his bad trim made him keep rising and flailing. He would descend and try again, but his poor feet down attitude kept working against him. Oh yeah, he wouldn't meet with me an hour or two before the class to get my vector lecture, so he had all that working against him. When he finally got serious about trim, he started to have fun. I was then able to take him through some of my other exercises. One is called side to side. The student pretends they are looking under a ledge, so they start within a foot of the bottom. They pivot to their left side, kicking only with their right fin. Your left (bottom) fin would be too close to the bottom to kick without stirring things up. Two kicks and they spin to be on their right side, kicking with only their left fin. This increases control and confidence. Some get it only two laps, some need four. At this point, he had stopped fighting me and got it in two. FWIW, I teach my trim, buoyancy and propulsion class to instructors for free. Usually, it's centered around them learning how to teach OW off the knees. He wants to come back with a fresh mind to see how I do it. I will probably ask him to come when I'm teaching and just observe. I love pool work. That wasn't fun for me at all.

Pete, when you have a chance, have a look at this new thread and if you don't mind, tell me what you think...
(Tried to insert like a quote, but could not, so, a link)
When are you ready to learn diving?