Obnoxious boaters suck!

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If you're suggesting that this boat wasn't under power, even a slow trawl, how do you know this? Were you on that boat? I've been diving that lake lots of times and I've never seen any boat anchored up that close to shore. What I do see though, are boats doing a slow trawl close to shore, the same way this guy appears to be doing. The rangers at Lake Murray don't care if you're moving! I've been on Johnny Johnson's boat, tied up to the metal tower, and a boater came and dropped anchor right at about the 150' limit. Along comes a ranger in his boat, blue light flashing, and goes right up to the anchored boat and writes the guy up. As for the flag not being the exact size...the rangers can choose to enforce whatever rules they choose to enforce. I have that exact same float/flag and have been in the water, putting my fins on and have had rangers at different times/days come up and have a conversation with me. If they didn't like my setup....they could've said something at these times. Only thing they say..."have a good dive". If you guys commenting about this have never been to this lake diving....probably better not to say anything about their rules and enforcement.

LOOK at the picture... THE BOAT IS NOT ANCHORED. There is no pressure wave in front of the bow or trailing the boat. The boat is NOT moving ether under power or inertia. In fact, you can see where a person got up, causing the bow to bounce and create a concentric pressure wave from the movement. That would not be seen if the boat were moving. The wind is away from shore and all the waves coming into the shore are "wake waves". looking behind the boat, you do not see a "wake wave" created by the boat. The engine on the boat is an outboard, an old one too, which means it is 2 cycle. An outboard under power exhausts through the prop, unless it is at idle. Since there is no visible disturbance of the water at the transom, means the boat is not turning the prop. Further, if the engine is idling, the exhaust is above water through a port in the shaft cover. Since it is a 2 cycle, it should show a little smoke trail away from shore with the wind, all 2 cycles smoke. I have operated all kinds of boats for over fifty years.. I DON'T need to be there to observe what is already observable in the picture, IF you know what you are looking at.

THE FLAG IS TOO SMALL AND THE OPERATOR DID NOT SEE IT UNTIL HE WAS RIGHT UP ON IT!!!!!
 
So, the boat wasn't moving, either under power or by inertia, and he didn't see the big yellow tube, with the words "DIVER BELOW" on it, with a 20"x16" bright red flag with a white stripe that is in direct view of a boat operator on a flat surface? Is that what you are saying OK? If the boat isn't moving, how did he approach?

Not that the explanation would even matter, because the boat is within the 150' radius, putting the operator in the wrong.

More often than not boat operators simply don't care or have no idea what the flag is for. Also putting the operator in the wrong.

For a person that wasn't there, you sure have an absolute opinion based on your observations. My observations tell me that boat, for whatever reason, is way too close to that dive flag which is illegal and punishable by fines. Nothing more can be determined with absolute correctness from the picture.

The point of the original poster was to point out what we all know to be true. A big percentage of boaters show no regard to divers in local Texas/Oklahoma lakes. I've seen it several times. So have you if you are an inland lake diver. I've also been on dives that boats DID follow the rules and keep their distance. They aren't all bad, just the "Obnoxious ones that suck".
 
My observations tell me that boat, for whatever reason, is way too close to that dive flag which is illegal and punishable by fines. Nothing more can be determined with absolute correctness from the picture.
".


Actually - thats not true.

Another absolute determination is that the diver has an illegally undersized dive flag. Also - Illegal, and punishable by fines.
 
Hang both parties------diver(s) & boat operator(s)---& be thru with this thread........

Now,............for an important question,.......does anyone know why you don't wizz into the wind????????......:)
 
Hang both parties------diver(s) & boat operator(s)---& be thru with this thread........

Now,............for an important question,.......does anyone know why you don't wizz into the wind????????......:)

i used to know the answer to this but forgot. So I peed into the wind and it came back to me :D
 
From the picture I'm looking at, I can't see the size of the flag since the flag is edge on to the photographer. The only reason we know the size is the op posted it. It's not like it's the size of a stamp. It's still a decent sized flag easily seen. Again, add to that the big yellow tube it's floating on with the big words in English, "Diver Below", I come to the speculative conclusion that the boat operator saw the float and either didn't know what it was, (which is a problem in my opinion), or he just didn't care, (which is a problem in my opinion). Flag size is irrelevant. From 150', even a smaller dive flag would be easily recognizable. Oklahoma law specifies it to be a certain size, but that isn't the rule everywhere. And in those locations, the flag is still recognizable as something to stay a safe distance from.

Why in the world would anyone even debate this? Just to be contrary?? I guess that's your right, it just seems pointless given the picture. It used to be that a picture spoke a thousand words. Now a days, they obviously speak a couple thousand.

And with that, I now understand what manni's post about whizzin into the wind was about.....
 
From the picture I'm looking at, I can't see the size of the flag since the flag is edge on to the photographer. The only reason we know the size is the op posted it. It's not like it's the size of a stamp. It's still a decent sized flag easily seen. Again, add to that the big yellow tube it's floating on with the big words in English, "Diver Below", I come to the speculative conclusion that the boat operator saw the float and either didn't know what it was, (which is a problem in my opinion), or he just didn't care, (which is a problem in my opinion). Flag size is irrelevant. From 150', even a smaller dive flag would be easily recognizable. Oklahoma law specifies it to be a certain size, but that isn't the rule everywhere. And in those locations, the flag is still recognizable as something to stay a safe distance from.

Why in the world would anyone even debate this? Just to be contrary?? I guess that's your right, it just seems pointless given the picture. It used to be that a picture spoke a thousand words. Now a days, they obviously speak a couple thousand.

And with that, I now understand what manni's post about whizzin into the wind was about.....


For the love of GOD,,,,,,,, The flag is barely visable.....Its already been admitted as undersized and illegal - to forgive this important point diminishes the overall value of the thread.

As important as it is for boaters to LEARN and Understand what a risk they can be to us.....it is EQUALLY important for us to do everything we can to remain visible and within the boundaries of the law.

For you to say flag size is irrelevant is just downright ignorant to safety, law, and common sense.
 
It's not like the flag is 5" x 7". It's not microscopic. It's a dive flag I've seen flown a thousand times before. I've seen smaller ones flown. If it was a dive flag issue, then all dive flags that size would never be manufactured. What, is that just a wall decoration never meant to be used in the field?? A couple more square inches would not have made a hill of beans difference to that disrespectful, uneducated boater.

Argue just to argue. That's cool with me.
 
It's not like the flag is 5" x 7". It's not microscopic. It's a dive flag I've seen flown a thousand times before. I've seen smaller ones flown. If it was a dive flag issue, then all dive flags that size would never be manufactured. What, is that just a wall decoration never meant to be used in the field?? A couple more square inches would not have made a hill of beans difference to that disrespectful, uneducated boater.

Argue just to argue. That's cool with me.


While I am on board with the speculation that the boater was where he was intentionally, to say that a bigger flag would make no difference in the visibility of the flag is just silly. Of course it would help. The bigger it is, the easier it is to be seen......the end. All this back and forth is exactly why the uneven application of the law is a bad thing. You get people on both sides that feel they are well within the "allowable" or "tolerable" zone and have therefore done nothing wrong.

If the flag is undersized to what is required in Oklahoma, then it is FACT that the diver is breaking the law. The fact that the boater is 25' from the dive flag makes it fact that he is breaking the law. These are absolutes and cannot be denied. What people seem to want to dispute is whether they are within the "close enough" zone or not. When it comes to dive flag awareness and safety, I say nail them both to the cross with the maximum allowable punishment and make an example of them. Maybe then people will choose to follow the law rather than break it.
 
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