New policy on lionfish in the park

[mjatkins]

I cannot believe for a second that you Matthew need to do a certification to learn how to use this tool. I will teach you for free. Likely do a better job too, maybe show you some upsidedown maneuvers that are pretty cool. This is used in the swim throughs. Also I'll teach you how to hit them will drifting along, teach you about the way water refracts images. hmm you likely already know that. I am being factious about that last line as I am upset you are playing into their hand.

Kevin, I appreciate your confidence in my abilities to use this tool untrained. I hope however, that there will be more training involved than just stabbing practice. To be honest, I have never killed a lionfish, and have no desire to do so. I signed up for the course because I feel that it is my responsibility as someone working inside the park to open myself up to the argument. Maybe I will learn something at the course that will convince me that we are not just being short sighted, arrogant humans by believing that our efforts to kill these fish are doing more good than harm. And for believing that our puny efforts are going to make any impact what so ever in the evolutionary history of one tiny island surrounded by lionfish. For me this is about more than just how to kill, it's at least as much about should we kill.

Leave well alone, the park is loved by the people that work it. Not everyone is allowed to use the killing tools.

So currently who is not allowed to use them? Other than the park rules, which many seem to ignore (yourself as much as anyone if previous posts are to be used as an indication), what criteria can we use to say who is allowed and who is not? Is it to be decided by the diveshop, the DM, the individual diver? Just who gets to say who is allowed and who isn't, if not the Marine Park?

 

[geokr]

Just who gets to say who is allowed and who isn't, if not the Marine Park?

It's the Marine Park who gets to say and makes the rules and enforces the rules, no different than any other rule they have. Rules that the DMs and dive operators follow and enforce to the degree that they can. There's really no arguement there. It's their park and their responsibility. But - it doesn't take a lot of thinking to come up with a new set of rules and a list of authorized equipment that's safe to use and a training cirriculum that can be completed in about 10 minutes without PADI that will allow more people to help with control efforts. This policy is shortsighted and it's going to be wholly ineffective in the long run. The one tool they're authorizing, the ELF, is too small. Might be OK now but when you come up against an 18-inch lionfish you'll see what I mean. DMs aren't going to be able to do it all by themselves and do all the other things they have to do as well. This might be a start but there's a long way to go to get an effective policy in place and this ain't it, IMHO. Glad to see that you're talking about it, wish I could be there tomorrow, best of luck in the future.

 

[ggunn]

This is total B.S. we were just talking about this last night. The hunting of the Lionfish here I think is making a difference.

It may be making a difference in the areas where we dive, but that's all. Stop killing them for a moment and they will be right back from where they are numerous and divers can't/don't go. You can't control a mosquito population by swatting the ones that land on you.

 

[Rodive]

It's the Marine Park who gets to say and makes the rules and enforces the rules, no different than any other rule they have........The one tool they're authorizing, the ELF, is too small..

Several good points. Thanks I believe you understand and are asking several good questions. About the training it is more than ten minutes and much more comprehensive than just point and shoot practice. From assuring your divers are all fully aware of the practice before everyone gets on board the dive boat so no one is put in an uncompfortable position to fully understanding why The Coz Marine Park Strategy to deal with these lionfish. So we can make sure that when some guest visits they are brought to speed as why we are hunting and not just telling them because "they were brought in by hurricane Andrew in Florida." So now we have to kill them. They eat alot and they have a lots of eggs.
Regarding the ELF being too small they have gotten a 23 1/8 inch long lionfish that wieghed 4.7 pounds with just the paralyzer tip at Mahahual. :shocked2:

The course will also be offered by the Marine Park and to avoid costs
the creator of the distinctive specialty will be offering the course in a for "Cozumel Format" so they will not have to issue cert-cards.

I hope this info helps!

 

[talbix]

The enemy is not the Marine Park or the makers of the ELF tool, the enemy is the lionfish.
The makers of the ELF tool have spent over 25k of their own money
developing a tool, testing and producing a solid training program. As I read about all the "experts" who know what and how best to do this, every country and Marine park will have all kinds of "cowboys" blasting away and hitting reefs and killing other marine life.
The problem is the lionfish invasion is going to destroy diving and fishing, but in the process, a measured response is to choose the best training and methods available. The original ELF tools have been on thousands of dives and still work great. It is the safest tool on the reef and with training no one will be hitting the reef or blasting up sponges. I read of one diver, bragging how careful he is as he chases the lionfish out of a sponge and then if he is a good shot shooting them. Well what happens if he misses, and a lionfish eventually learns to hide from divers and become more difficult to kill. The divers on Bonaire where only the ELF is used say they get 100% of the fish they target. They have all been trained and certified to hunt lionfish.
The developers of the ELF tool approached the Marine Park and governments to see their plan and objectives. They met with scores of divers and tried numerous changes to come up with the final version. They have the tools serialized and recorded. They spend more money on the raw material to make them durable than others sell their units for. So, there is a huge difference.
Most of all they spend considerable time and effort updating divers on the best way to hunt lionfish and NOT molest the reefs.
After extensive research, development, and working closely with marine parks & accredited universities, Dr's & scientists, we have aquired a leading edge knowlede base. I know of no program other than Reef Protection incorporateds with any knowledge of the parasites being found on Lionfish

 

[geokr]

Regarding the ELF being too small they have gotten a 23 1/8 inch long lionfish that wieghed 4.7 pounds with just the paralyzer tip at Mahahual. :shocked2:

I'd have to see that....and you aren't going to get away with using that ELF olive fork too often with many of the really big lionfish. I do, however, applaud your efforts and hope that the program expands and changes as the need for more aggressive control becomes necessary.

 

[Rodive]

I'd have to see that....and you aren't going to get away with using that ELF olive fork too often with many of the really big lionfish. I do, however, applaud your efforts and hope that the program expands and changes as the need for more aggressive control becomes necessary.

hahaha! Olive fork is a great name. The olive fork comes with a threaded tip that works as a barb so smaller fish do not escape once pierced. Also this thread eliminates the need to press down on the fish once speared against something (sand, reef, rock) becasue the thread keeps them in place. This is one of the reasons I do not favor simple hawaian slings. More importantly though the thread is for the paralyzer tip that has three prongs and helps you catch the big ones. This way you can always use the tip you need!

 

[geokr]

hahaha! Olive fork is a great name. The olive fork comes with a threaded tip that works as a barb so smaller fish do not escape once pierced. Also this thread eliminates the need to press down on the fish once speared against something (sand, reef, rock) becasue the thread keeps them in place. This is one of the reasons I do not favor simple hawaian slings. More importantly though the thread is for the paralyzer tip that has three prongs and helps you catch the big ones. This way you can always use the tip you need!

It's still just too small. If you look at the video on the ELF website you'll see that to get in range and after spearing the fish the divers hand is just a few inches from the barbs. Too dangerous. And with a big lionfish you're putting yourself at much greater risk. You need a little distance. The Accuspear or a short hawaiian sling is the best tool for the job and doesn't put the diver at peril of getting stung which will render him ineffective at doing anything for the next three plus hours. That's another reason the DMs should be attending to other matters.

 

[talbix]

Hey FIRST DIVE 2005, I am glad you see the need of training and you offerd to train another poster here. How soon would you like to join forces? Can you pay for your airfare, lodging, food, and spend your time on the island training marine park authorized divers? We will gladly accept your help. Please drop us a line, we hope to hear from you soon.

 

[MMM]

It may be making a difference in the areas where we dive, but that's all. Stop killing them for a moment and they will be right back from where they are numerous and divers can't/don't go. You can't control a mosquito population by swatting the ones that land on you.

Using a similar analogy, the entire area around my acreage and indeed the city, practices larvaciding. It helps control West Nile Virus and makes my summers more pleasant. The mosquitos are still there and will return year after year without such action.