New policy on lionfish in the park

[Karibelle]

Also, I'll add, the Bahamian Governtment and the Fisheries Department aren't too fussy about what you use, just kill 'em....

I watched the video in the first link you posted and I have to say, the Bahamians also seem unconcerned about the buoyancy control and skill of the hunters either. Here in Coz, as I'm sure you know, many (most?) of the lionfish that are hunted are on a reef structure much more fragile than the sandy bottom that the folks in the video link ran roughshod over. I can only hope that hunters (and their helpers/buddies) here are more careful than those in that video. I have to say that the ones I have personally seen are not, but admittedly I have limited experience watching the killing.

kari

 

[scubadada]

I just visited the Reef Protection Inc. website. Only $205 for the basic ELF setup (accessories cost more) and $180 for the certification for a total of a minimum of $385. This appears to be quite a business to me, one with a monopoly on Cozumel. Somehow, I'm not all that surprised.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Rodive]

Jeez, its back to square one with some of you guys...
It has been established here that it is the Marine Parks right and obligation to make sure that the Lionfish hunting inside the park is done under their terms. Not yours, not for your pleasure. They ARE the experts and they understand that this mainly is not to be practiced by foreigners who are here only visiting the Marine Park as tourists. Secondly they also understand that anyone can shoot lionfish or any other species for that matter, killing indiscriminately is not the goal. The goal is to kill lionfish with the least amount of collateral damage! Why is that so difficult to understand? When we say collateral damage we are not talking ONLY about buoyancy. Having good buoyancy is so obvious it is almost infantile to mention in this discussion. We know that you need good buoyancy when hunting. Collateral damage means not turning guests off to Cozumel because every shop kills lionfish without regard to what these visitors feel about it. There is a whole movement in terms of dealing with lionfish that believes you shouldn't kill them and let nature rectify itself. We as host Dive Shops have to understand that guests who feel this way are not to be subjected to lionfish hunting when they come to visit our island. Also when we talk about collateral damage we need to make sure that if a DM forgot his sling and asks for a tool from a friend he has the exact same model and it will behave in the exact same way as the one he has been using for the last year. Because that is when proficient hunters hit things inadvertently. Homemade tools are NOT to be allowed because they all vary in size, accuracy, weight, control and in safety. Some of you are actually supporting spears? We cannot permit inside the marine park for “Juanito” to bring his homemade tool he made out of plastic piping and who never gives it any type of service and it has a worn rubber band that can break whenever with a spear that LEAVES his hand for the shot. We need and will have standards here. Do not think that just because we are in Mexico you can come here and do what you want, that is NOT the case. One of the many reasons we prefer the ELF Tool is the fact that they are serialized so we can track the hunting tool something that you cannot do if you have indiscriminate use of homemade tools. Also collateral damage means that once you kill or hurt a lionfish to teach our DMs and Instructors to NOT FEED groupers, anemones, triggerfish, etc. I know this is happening, it took us many years to eradicate the feeding of fish inside the marine park and now all of a sudden we are losing this simple battle because there is no guideline as to what the DMs and Instructors have to do once they kill the lionfish. Another part of the collateral damage is the fact that there is a new parasite on some lionfish and we are trying to figure out what it is and if it is here in Cozumel as well. With everyone just killing the fish and not checking we are missing the opportunities to find out what this parasite is, where it came from and how it is affecting this fish. Another part of the of collateral damage is having foreigners think they can come down Cozumel (I don’t care how many times you have dived here and dive here) and use our Marine park to perfect their spear fishing techniques.
I also take offense to the fact that several of you think you know better than our experts here. Just because we are Mexican it does not mean we cannot make an informed decision. The Cozumel Marine Park has studied the facts and the options and has decided that this is the best option right now. Why wouldn’t you support their decision? Because you know Juanito the DM and he kills lionfish very well when you dive with him? You are being shortsighted and you do not even understand the goals that Coz Marine Park is trying to meet. Please reach out to the Cozumel Marine Park and they will inform you.

 

[Rodive]

I just visited the Reef Protection Inc. website. Only $205 for the basic ELF setup (accessories cost more) and $180 for the certification for a total of a minimum of $385. This appears to be quite a business to me, one with a monopoly on Cozumel. Somehow, I'm not all that surprised.

Good diving, Craig

Hey bro, It seems to me you just looked at a website and made a comment without any research, I am begining to see a trend here in this Scuba Board....
For your info, the ELF is not sold to people on the island nor on the island because they first went to the Marine Park and asked permission. Ricardo asked them to please hold off selling this tool because they did not want another tool lfoating around the island. And the ELF is being sold to the Marine Park at cost and donated by dive shops like ours. So Reach out and find out before speaking out.....
And Honestly why don't all of you Geniuses who are so enfatic that there is some hidden uber-capalist scheme behind supporting the Coz Marine Park, Why don't you make your tool and sell it? Where is your proposal to deal with this issue? Where is your plan and program to make some of this HUGE life changing money that is going to be handed out?


I am going to throw down the gauntlet: I dare you! I dare all of you naysayers to come up with a better plan and tool! You will be rich! Come and enjoy the luxuries of Lion Fish Hunting business!!!

 

[MMM]

One of the many reasons we prefer the ELF Tool is the fact that they are serialized so we can track the hunting tool

The Cozumel Marine Park has studied the facts and the options and has decided that this is the best option right now. Why wouldn’t you support their decisionwyou.

Two questions. Why do you need to track the tool? Secondly is there something issued by the Marine Park about their decision? En Espanol is OK.

 

[scubadada]

Jeez, its back to square one with some of you guys...
It has been established here that it is the Marine Parks right and obligation to make sure that the Lionfish hunting inside the park is done under their terms. Not yours, not for your pleasure. They ARE the experts and they understand that this mainly is not to be practiced by foreigners who are here only visiting the Marine Park as tourists. Secondly they also understand that anyone can shoot lionfish or any other species for that matter, killing indiscriminately is not the goal. The goal is to kill lionfish with the least amount of collateral damage! Why is that so difficult to understand? When we say collateral damage we are not talking ONLY about buoyancy. Having good buoyancy is so obvious it is almost infantile to mention in this discussion. We know that you need good buoyancy when hunting. Collateral damage means not turning guests off to Cozumel because every shop kills lionfish without regard to what these visitors feel about it. There is a whole movement in terms of dealing with lionfish that believes you shouldn't kill them and let nature rectify itself. We as host Dive Shops have to understand that guests who feel this way are not to be subjected to lionfish hunting when they come to visit our island. Also when we talk about collateral damage we need to make sure that if a DM forgot his sling and asks for a tool from a friend he has the exact same model and it will behave in the exact same way as the one he has been using for the last year. Because that is when proficient hunters hit things inadvertently. Homemade tools are NOT to be allowed because they all vary in size, accuracy, weight, control and in safety. Some of you are actually supporting spears? We cannot permit inside the marine park for “Juanito” to bring his homemade tool he made out of plastic piping and who never gives it any type of service and it has a worn rubber band that can break whenever with a spear that LEAVES his hand for the shot. We need and will have standards here. Do not think that just because we are in Mexico you can come here and do what you want, that is NOT the case. One of the many reasons we prefer the ELF Tool is the fact that they are serialized so we can track the hunting tool something that you cannot do if you have indiscriminate use of homemade tools. Also collateral damage means that once you kill or hurt a lionfish to teach our DMs and Instructors to NOT FEED groupers, anemones, triggerfish, etc. I know this is happening, it took us many years to eradicate the feeding of fish inside the marine park and now all of a sudden we are losing this simple battle because there is no guideline as to what the DMs and Instructors have to do once they kill the lionfish. Another part of the collateral damage is the fact that there is a new parasite on some lionfish and we are trying to figure out what it is and if it is here in Cozumel as well. With everyone just killing the fish and not checking we are missing the opportunities to find out what this parasite is, where it came from and how it is affecting this fish. Another part of the of collateral damage is having foreigners think they can come down Cozumel (I don’t care how many times you have dived here and dive here) and use our Marine park to perfect their spear fishing techniques.
I also take offense to the fact that several of you think you know better than our experts here. Just because we are Mexican it does not mean we cannot make an informed decision. The Cozumel Marine Park has studied the facts and the options and has decided that this is the best option right now. Why wouldn’t you support their decision? Because you know Juanito the DM and he kills lionfish very well when you dive with him? You are being shortsighted and you do not even understand the goals that Coz Marine Park is trying to meet. Please reach out to the Cozumel Marine Park and they will inform you.

This is a reasonable post that makes several good points. I appreciate the information and look forward to seeing results from the program.

Good diving, Craig

 

[drrich2]

One thing to consider is that when regulations are developed, they must:

1.) Be developed to the least common denominator idiot (or close). Many people can jury rig fine home-made products, but you cannot legislate on the grounds everyone has good sense, and how far do you trust officials (think the bottom quartile of quality amongst them) to judge home-made products?

2.) Standardization aids enforcement. If several products are okay, you're going to have more trouble getting your enforcement officials on the same page about what's okay to use (especially since many divers will turn up with a product 'almost just like' one of the approved ones). Sometimes the 'least common denominator idiot' is the governed, sometimes it's the governing. What can I say?

I have nothing to do with diving regulation. I have some assistant level administrative level and regulatory committee duties in my workplace, and from that I can tell you I am sickened at times that we have to devise inefficient policies to enable idiots by setting standards assuming everyone is one. It's changed how I look at regulatory control a bit.

Now, all that said...

With everyone just killing the fish and not checking we are missing the opportunities to find out what this parasite is, where it came from and how it is affecting this fish.

It's hard for me to believe people killing lionfish is depriving us of the opportunity to study parasites. Are there not enough lionfish to go around? Is anyone wishing to study them unable to find sufficient numbers for collection because divers are wiping out too many?

People complain the ELF gets you too close to the larger lionfishes' spines. As lionfish hunting gets more popular, and far more divers participate (even at the DM & up level), you'll get people who aren't all 'cream of the crop' (no offense; most of them can probably dive rings around me), who'll be in more danger. Is there some reason the ELF's shaft can't be made another 6 to 8 inches long?

Richard.

 

[scubadada]

After visiting SE FL several times, unarmed, I bought myself a Liontamer ($40 incl shipping) lion fish liontamer. This weapon is easy to carry and easy to use. I was 3 for 3 on my first hunt with fish between small and medium-large. Lionfish eradication can be performed by many divers, at low cost, and safely. This is not rocket science and should not cost as much.

Good diving, Craig

I just visited the Reef Protection Inc. website. Only $205 for the basic ELF setup (accessories cost more) and $180 for the certification for a total of a minimum of $385. This appears to be quite a business to me, one with a monopoly on Cozumel. Somehow, I'm not all that surprised.

Good diving, Craig

Hey bro, It seems to me you just looked at a website and made a comment without any research, I am begining to see a trend here in this Scuba Board....
For your info, the ELF is not sold to people on the island nor on the island because they first went to the Marine Park and asked permission. Ricardo asked them to please hold off selling this tool because they did not want another tool lfoating around the island. And the ELF is being sold to the Marine Park at cost and donated by dive shops like ours. So Reach out and find out before speaking out.....
And Honestly why don't all of you Geniuses who are so enfatic that there is some hidden uber-capalist scheme behind supporting the Coz Marine Park, Why don't you make your tool and sell it? Where is your proposal to deal with this issue? Where is your plan and program to make some of this HUGE life changing money that is going to be handed out?


I am going to throw down the gauntlet: I dare you! I dare all of you naysayers to come up with a better plan and tool! You will be rich! Come and enjoy the luxuries of Lion Fish Hunting business!!!

I'm not your bro. This seems like a much less reasonable post and appears to be reactive to possible criticism. Do not get me wrong, I hope the program is successful. As per my previous post, there are competitve tools at much reduced price compared to the $385+ from the Reef Protection Inc. website (tool & training). Best of luck in your Lionfish eradication program, I'm sorry I can't participate.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Rodive]

Two questions. Why do you need to track the tool? Secondly is there something issued by the Marine Park about their decision? En Espanol is OK.

With a serial# The Marine Park who owns the ELF will kown who has the ELF and they will be able retrieve it, identify it and track it if it changes hands. Also they will have the history of each tool.

As far as I know up to today the only thing issued in writing is no spearfishing allowed. How they are going about this is a great question for them tonight! I will update later!

 

[Rodive]

I'm not your bro. This seems like a much less reasonable post and appears to be reactive to possible criticism. Do not get me wrong, I hope the program is successful. As per my previous post, there are competitve tools at much reduced price compared to the $385+ from the Reef Protection Inc. website (tool & training). Best of luck in your Lionfish eradication program, I'm sorry I can't participate.

Good diving, Craig

When you are right, you are right! I am sorry that was a complete knee jerk reaction answer. I can be better than that. Sorry.