Near Misses

[Lobs]

My wife and I are going to stay at the Oxidental and were planning on using Dive Palancar. Our concern isn't just the bad air, which I believe is a genuine concern. However more of a concern is how badly Dive Palancar handled the emergency. Reading most of the posts on this issue it appeared that the divers were not properly briefed on how Dive Palancar handles emergencies. We have dived mostly with Dressel and I assure you that before each dive we were extensively briefed on what to do in case another diver is in distress. Does anyone know if Dive Palancar notified another boat in the area of the emergency and to look out for the other divers still diving, or did they just assume that the rest of the divers would be OK? Is what they did standard practice? I believe that all dive boat captains are using the same radio frequency. Would not other captains heard the Dive Palancar boat captain call in the emergency? Apparently Dressel knew what they were doing because they had an emergency medical team ready when they arrived at the dock. We are still new to the sport and with these concerns we will probably not dive with Dive Palancar unless they can give us some assurance that they have learned from this whole ordeal and if they have made any changes to assure safe diving. By the way does anyone know about Co-Cop brand Co analyzer's reliability. It uses a small capsule to detect Co in tanks. It is much less expensive than the other types, and it seems to be easy to use. One thing I have learned is that I will be asking a lot more questions about emergency procedures and safety issues with the dive masters. If they can't answer or give me an attitue I woun't use their outfit.

 

[DandyDon]

By the way does anyone know about Co-Cop brand Co analyzer's reliability. It uses a small capsule to detect Co in tanks. It is much less expensive than the other types, and it seems to be easy to use.

Got a link? I think that one failed in the marketplace and the remaining supply was sold by Scubatoys.com very cheaply but is no longer available.

It took me a bit to learn the weaknesses of the one I use and how I really needed to keep it inside the ziplock baggie all of the time, not just in tests, and to use Slider bags only, but for the price and utility - I like it ok. Detect Carbon Monoxide

 

[Mike]

My wife and I are going to stay at the Oxidental and were planning on using Dive Palancar. Our concern isn't just the bad air, which I believe is a genuine concern. However more of a concern is how badly Dive Palancar handled the emergency. Reading most of the posts on this issue it appeared that the divers were not properly briefed on how Dive Palancar handles emergencies. We have dived mostly with Dressel and I assure you that before each dive we were extensively briefed on what to do in case another diver is in distress. Does anyone know if Dive Palancar notified another boat in the area of the emergency and to look out for the other divers still diving, or did they just assume that the rest of the divers would be OK? Is what they did standard practice? I believe that all dive boat captains are using the same radio frequency. Would not other captains heard the Dive Palancar boat captain call in the emergency? Apparently Dressel knew what they were doing because they had an emergency medical team ready when they arrived at the dock. We are still new to the sport and with these concerns we will probably not dive with Dive Palancar unless they can give us some assurance that they have learned from this whole ordeal and if they have made any changes to assure safe diving.

One thing I have learned is that I will be asking a lot more questions about emergency procedures and safety issues with the dive masters. If they can't answer or give me an attitue I woun't use their outfit.

I believe that responses like this is what it takes and why it's beneficial posting these incidents on boards like this. The 'Mexico business method' reminds me of how the bad big corporations operate (hmm... Toyota comes to mind?). Sometimes publicity is what it takes to get them to acknowledge issues and make changes.

 

[jfcl01]

anyone have any new info/updates on this?

 

[jd950]

anyone have any new info/updates on this?

If you mean an update on the divers and response from the dive op, no. I think the discussion is largely over. While some wonder what happened and what if anything was done to address the problem, others have written the incident off as "mass hysteria" or a "plot" or "hearsay," etc.

Me? I'm buying a tester and don't use Dive Palancar anyway, but it is obvious Dive Palancar had a problem and has chosen to keep mum about it, as is their right. However, not hearing what they have done to avoid the problem in the future, I would not use them. Sorry if that seems harsh, but absent some indication they have done something about the issue, why would I use them? I wouldn't be out buying a recent model Toyota Camry, either.

If you mean updates on CO poisoning and analyzers in general, there is an ongoing thread in the near misses forum.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm sure that every Op on the island knows what happened, but no one is going to talk. Bad for business. They work hard to keep news from leaving the island. We are lucky that one diver told us.

 

[DandyDon]

I actually got a reply to the message I sent the Op asking for more information. It came from a yahoo email addy, seemed to be a direct reply to my questions, and traces to the IP address: 187.153.91.147 from Mexico, Cancún. Make of it what you will; at least we're told that no one died but there is no mention of the truck parked near the air intake or what the resolution will be...

Good afternoon Sir. Since every incident is treated confidentially, we have been in contact only with PADI and the persons involved. But I can tell you that there were no fatalities at all. Two divers needed to get into the hyperbaric chamber for treatment. In the medical reports given to us, the air contamination is not mentioned, but since one of the divers concerned about it, from the day the incident occured, we stopped our compressor machines to verify their functioning and to be sure that everything is Ok, and we've been working with tanks rented from the company at downtown. The person who use to fill up the tanks at our dive shop changes the filters every 50 hours of service, this is around every 5 or 6 days, and this is the first time, in 16 years, that some incident like this happens. Our technicians are checking the machines, as I told you before, and we will use them until they authorize it. About the divemasters and boat crews, they were very professional, and even the divers affected in the incidentes thank them regarding the way they acted under pressure. The divers were provided with oxygen on board the boats in the moment, while we were waiting for the paramedics to arrive. If you have any question about this issue, please, do not hesitate to contact us again.
(name removed)
Dive Palancar

 

[DandyDon]

I did reply to the email with these questions...

1: Were the tanks air tested? By whom? Findings?

2: Was a truck parked near the compressor air intake? What has been done to resolve that?

3: Do you use Analox inline Carbon Monoxide monitors on your compressors?

Edit: I got this reply...

Good morning. Until now, the tanks hasn't been tested, because here in the island we coudn't find a person who could do it. The compressor machines are in an isolated area, away from any vehicle, fuel, or possible contamination. As I told you, since that day we are not using our compressor machines, and a technician from the mainland has been working deeply in the whole system. We are renting tanks from a company at downtown. Now I am checking with several companies in the web, different kinds of analizers so we can purchase one and install it in our machine. Thank you for your concern.

Gawd, they don't know where to get air tested.

So it was not the truck story I had in mind.

I'm going to suggest he call Patti at Analox...

Edit: Actually, this is what I sent...

Ok I don't know where I got the truck story. It sounds like a compressor issue, which is why it is important to operate all scuba compressors with inline Carbon Monoxide monitors & auto shut off, available from www.Analox.net for about $1,000 USD including additional equipment needed. I guess you were not using one....?

PADI requires quarterly air sample checks be sent to a qualified testing company. If you have not been doing this, you can contact them for how to obtain sampling supplies and where to send.

Patti at Analox can help with testing I think, as well as needed equipment. Call her in the US at (714) 891 4478 or email her at patti.clarkson@analox.biz

DAN can help, and CEO Dan Orr is aware of this incident. Call him.

I am going to forward copies of this email to Pattie and Dan in hopes it will help get things done...

 

[cvchief]

Don!! Is there anything you don't have all the info on?

 

[DandyDon]

Don!! Is there anything you don't have all the info on?

I'll take that as good humored sarcasm. eace: Sure, plenty - but this is a pet peeve of mine.

I received this email from Dive Palancar this morning and have been thinking of a response all day...

Thank you very, very much for your interest, suggestions and help. Actually, the device I am requesting a quotation for is an Analox. I saw your next e-mail and will talk to Dr. Gomez. It is really good to deal with people like you, who wants to help and not just point a finger and look for somebody to blame. I really appreciate your comments.

My reply: I do hope my stand here is not too strong, but then - it needs to be...

Yes, I would like to help. I did not think I'd receive a reply to my original communication really, and I am aware at how accident news often does not leave the island, so was pleasantly surprised to receive your informative missive. Gracias!

1: I was wrong. Padi no longer requires quarterly air checks. Those can be still be done at either of two facilities...
http://www.airtesting.com/dive.php
http://www.airchecklab.com/sport-diving.html
and Padi does have a discount program with one of those...
link to more info on Padi.com
but quarterly air testing is not enough anyway.

2: To test the tanks you currently have from the accident, perhaps the DAN affiliated local doctor can help. There are a few personal analyzers available and I carry and use one on every tank I dive, but I am looking forward to the new one Analox hopes to introduce this summer.

3: Continuous monitoring of Carbon Monoxide is the only safe approach since operating conditions can change with overheated compressors and other causes, and Analox can set you up with a full system for around $1,000 USD - a sizable investment, but only pennies a tank to ensure that CO problems do not make it to your customers and DMs.

I do not think that anyone on Cozumel is currently using one yet, as this seems to be a common and long standing omission in the Caribbean and Latin American sector as well as many other dive destinations around the world. DAN admits that they do not know how many scuba drownings are actually caused by CO toxicity in tanks as the testing and information has often not been forthcoming.

You can be the first on Cozumel perhaps to take the right step in acquiring and using one. Since the accident is well known in US Scuba, I suggest that you could stand to lose a significant amount of business otherwise - but if you do make this improvement and publicize it even, many will be impressed with such a responsible approach. Such is my thinking anyway...

4: You may also discuss the type of filters you are using with Analox or your compressor manufacturer, as I am told that it is important that the filter cartridge has a catalyst commonly known as "hopcalite" or "monoxycon" in it. I am not qualified to explain that tho, so will encourage you to discuss this with Analox, DAN, etc. Do let me know if I may assist in finding more information if you need it tho.