NACD Instructor standards violation

[tbone1004]

I think P3 is a bit different as far as training occurring there, I think the unwritten rule is that you aren't supposed to have students crawling around in there doing lost line drills etc, but conducting training dives in there to do siphon training for dives a bit longer than Cow down is allowed and I know that full cave courses are taken in there quite regularly.

 

[LiteHedded]

people want sites that are close and easy. i get that. my normoxic trimix class was done in caves. under a very specific set of circumstances you can take tech 1 and tech 2 in a cave with GUE
but i was not an intro diver

 

[karstdvr]

I was actually going to say Hendley's Castle seems like a very good place for Trimix training, to me...especially in sidemount. You can get deeper than 130ft pretty easily, it's not that far from the entrance, and has a nice vertical chimney for "blue water ascent" type practice. I guess I'm more talking the path TO Hendley's Castle, because Hendley's Castle is after that bedding-plane-type thing at ~130ft, right? Certainly not for a Cavern diver, but for a Full Cave and AN/DP diver....that would be a pretty good place, I'd think. I'm okay with the de facto ban on training there, but it seems like as good a place as any (besides 40fathom, and maybe Eagle's Nest but I haven't been there).

That has to be a judgement call for the instructor because you are in a very silty syphon,and you are taking a student learning a new skill into an area where is a problem occurs you have to swim over 1000' before you can ascend. Sometimes what I see is that the site is chosen for the convenience of the instructor and the student,versus what is needed for the class based on the student. For example why drive 150 miles, when I can drive 30 miles

---------- Post added April 24th, 2015 at 12:52 PM ----------

I think P3 is a bit different as far as training occurring there, I think the unwritten rule is that you aren't supposed to have students crawling around in there doing lost line drills etc, but conducting training dives in there to do siphon training for dives a bit longer than Cow down is allowed and I know that full cave courses are taken in there quite regularly.

The place is really showing the wear and tear with obvious signs of stage dumping. The sand slide used to be much smaller and siltier. Skills as you said are a no-no,but P3 needs consideration for the quality of student,but that is the instructors judgement.

 

[StefinSB]

My favorite day in all of motorsports was the day AFTER the 2002 FIFA World Cup. Rubens Barichello (Brazil) beat Michael Schumacher (Germany) the day after Brazil beat Germany 2-0. Rubens, under his nomex, wore a shirt celebrating Brazil 2 - Germany 0. Both the score of the World Cup, and celebrating two victories for Brazil over Germany....the F1 race and the World Cup.

F1 Championships: Schumi 7, Barichello 0
Worldcup 2014: Winner Germany, 4th place Brazil

 

[victorzamora]

F1 Championships: Schumi 7, Barichello 0
Worldcup 2014: Winner Germany, 4th place Brazil

Certainly, and I've been a Schumi fan since before he won a World Championship. However, that weekend belonged to Brazil.

 

[Redshift]

I don't know that cave in particular, but I'd like to comment on a view that I have seen several people express, that an intro diver cannot be doing decompression dives let alone trimix in a cave and that the card has stated a depth limit.

My full cave card doesn't mention deco, but says 130ft. The way I see it it's because cave courses are not deco nor trimix courses and so they cannot say you were taught to plan and conduct deco. That's a different line of instruction. The card states what the diver has been taught to do. But if then the diver has another card that says they can do deco or trimix, why not do it in a cave as long as the diver stays within the limits of both certifications?
Of course there are caves that are more suitable than others, but I don't see it as a complete prohibition.

 

[nimoh]

the 130 refers to max depth? I thought it was max penetration

 

[Redshift]

the 130 refers to max depth? I thought it was max penetration

Cavern certs have a maximum distance from surface (including depth and penetration), as well as depth limits, but this is a fill cave certification. It doesn't have penetration limit, but does have this depth limit. Which makes sense for those diving air (and could even be more conservative in this regard). But if a diver has another certification that allows them to go beyond this depth, use trimix, etc why not? Are they forever limited by what this card says? Cards are bits of a puzzle, you need to join them to get the full picture.

 

[nimoh]

Cavern certs have a maximum distance from surface (including depth and penetration), as well as depth limits, but this is a fill cave certification. It doesn't have penetration limit, but does have this depth limit. Which makes sense for those diving air (and could even be more conservative in this regard). But if a diver has another certification that allows them to go beyond this depth, use trimix, etc why not? Are they forever limited by what this card says? Cards are bits of a puzzle, you need to join them to get the full picture.

I've never taken a cavern course, so not familiar with them or their limits. I was just kidding, as once the soccer/F1 debate started I figured the thread topic was beyond saving

 

[boulderjohn]

My full cave card doesn't mention deco, but says 130ft.

Is that TDI? (Your profile is not clear on that.)

My NSS-CDS card has no such notation. If your card has a limit to depth on it, then does the agency have another card that does away with that limit?