Marking Jumps and T's

[Redshift]

lololololol

WTH? I think he erased all his posts from this thread

Maybe for the best not having someone encouraging people to place conflicting arrows when a cookie serves the same purpose and not present an added danger in an emergency situation.

 

[ucfdiver]

Pete sent me a PM to let me know I had "successfully chased him out of the thread" and that he was unsubscribing, then deleting all of his posts. Looking at what I've posted I don't really see anything so harsh it would make him take his ball and go home, but I guess something did.

Based on the quote from earlier, it sounds as if you've never encountered a T tied directly into an arrow.

Pete,

Many T's are tied into an arrow and visually look identical to a jump (often because the explorer tied in just like a jump to "take a look" and then left the line there when it went). I think you're making a big generalization based on your limited experience.

You're saying you'd know if the arrow is a personal marker left by someone else or a system marker by feeling?

How exactly, do you know the difference between a personal arrow and a non personal one?

Many divers do not use arrows when tying in jump spools. It's not uncommon to see a jump spool tied in like you would find a T, and cookies on the exit side. That way your arrow doesn't confuse an exiting diver who might not have the same exit as you.

 

[rddvet]

I was thinking the same. It looks like all his original posts have been removed while the quotes of the removed posts remain.

Inappropriate use of moderation. I say stupid stuff all the time but I couldn't get it deleted if I wanted.

It comes off the same way as the kid who runs home with all of his toys because his friends weren't playing the way he wanted.

If there's going to be an open line of communication to create more standadization you can't be deleting posts. A thread like this is one of the reasons I moved to REMs.

 

[victorzamora]

I'm still learning so don't crucify me. If I come back from a jump and find a marker on my jump line that I didn't put there.. doesn't that mean I have to leave the line in place and exit without removing the line?

Yeah, you leave it. If you see a cookie on the MAIN line by your reel/spool, you can safely pull it. Divers rarely use another team's same jump reel (in my experience), but it's sometimes discussed at the surface. I wouldn't EVER pull a line that had another diver's cookie on it. I have left my line in before because of a cookie.

---------- Post added May 7th, 2015 at 08:16 AM ----------

I was taught to place my line in between double arrows, no cookie, this was at intro, but I wasn't to do any jumps then anyways.
Later at full cave I was taught to use the cookie on exit side, 1 by each member.

If only 1 arrow, then tie jump right at the arrow

If totally unmarked, then I'm actually not sure what I was taught, I can't remember, but I'm leaning towards placing my own arrow facing the direction of my exit and tie into it. But after acquiring more info later and here, I'm more likely to place a cookie, tie into it and place another on exit side, I will seek further info on this from more experienced divers as well as my former instructors.

I was taught the procedures you mention for 1&2 arrows. I was told that some people drop a second arrow and tie between them. I was told that in a jump with another reel between the two arrows it's wise to drop a third arrow. If it were to oppose arrow direction, I'd drop cookies. I will say, on the bolded section, I'd only do this if the arrow I'm dropping opposes nearby arrows. If I were in a system with one exit, I'd drop arrows. If I were in Peacock, jumping to Woody's room like in my example earlier, I'd drop two cookies instead of placing an opposing arrow. This is something we've discussed in pre-dive plans for similar dives.

 

[kensuf]

So, the one thing this thread really highlights is that we cannot all agree on how to mark a jump or T.

 

[Redshift]

 

[Jack Hammer]

I didn't feel any one was attacking Netdoc. His was a legitimate question and idea I feel many cave divers have considered at some point before hearing the all the reasoning behind just dropping a cookie in your exit side. To remove all ones posts just looks like a fragile ego was involved and does nothing to help the next guy who is thinking the same question. Plus its a blatant misuse of moderation powers, owner of board or not.

 

[Pavao]

So, the one thing this thread really highlights is that we cannot all agree on how to mark a jump or T.

Yeah, and that sucks we don't have a one system for all to be on the same page.
In a beautiful world, all agencies would get together and come up with a single system all would agree and teach, but....


This reminds me of a time a few friends and I were leaving Miami late at night, it was quiet, very few cars around, we took a ramp heading towards I-95, a minute later we see headlights coming towards us, we hit the horn, blink lights, scream and curse this crazy SOB, after laughing it off and joking how effed up that guy must've been we get back on the road and continue on the ramp, then a second car comes towards us, and now we're like, WTF is wrong with people tonight? Miami is effed up place! Then there's the 3rd, 4th, 5th car...
This wasn't a crazy party night, none of us were even close to being drunk, and you bet the street signs were all there, telling us we were going the wrong way and no one noticed it, and we were so sure to be going the right way that even after 2 cars in the opposite direction wasn't enough to change our opinions.

Now imagine underwater, under stress, some narcosis and zero viz

 

[Superlyte27]

Actually I am amazed at this thread and how it has evolved. What I hoped would be a civil discussion rooted in logic and critical thinking/analysis, has in part a degree of unwelcomed bravado and testosterone.

You must be new here.

 

[Redshift]

Let's go to a place I know and everybody uses their preferred method, cookies, arrows even if conflicting, arrows and cookies, etc and do some drills. Loss of visibility should be particularly fun.