Question Is GUE jump protocol unsafe in 0 viz??

[halocline]

Nobody else teaches or uses presence markers consistently except UTJ. This actually presents a problem in zero vis since you can spend quite a bit of time trying to figure out which of multiple presence markers is yours to remove it - and not knock anyone else's off. When you really just need to keep moving towards the exit.

Mingling directional markers and presence markers is also generally bad news. If you do use presence markers keep them distinct from directional markers.

GUE doesn't use presence markers and leaves every marker, jump and line in the cave when poo hits the fan. Cause they are all directional and have no presence meaning and anyone in the cave needs all the directional help available.

It was a crowded jump with multiple spools and markers that really sold me on the use of personalized presence markers for the team. To me it makes it easier to distinguish my team’s line. This is true in both normal and zero vis, but I’ve taken care to make sure my markers are both visually and tactile-ly very easy to identify. With the presence markers there’s more identifying information; ironically this is true especially if other teams are not using cookies to mark spools or reels. In that sense, maybe there’s a benefit to both practices being used.

In regards to the issue of leaving everything in place in the event of team separation, I can see the argument that everything should be left in place. The guiding principle is to make it as easy as possible for your lost team-mate to navigate out, and if it were me, I would want to encounter exactly what I had seen on the way in, especially in zero vis. Just thinking situationally, if I’m exiting at a navigation point and I have no idea where my team-mate is, chances are very good that the separation event happened deeper in the cave, and attempts to re-establish team contact have not been successful. Otherwise, why would I have proceeded to the navigation point?

The argument that leaving everything in team separation presents a more stressful situation to an exiting team-mate has some validity as well, because it provides no information about the team-mate’s status. But to me this is a lower priority than having the clearest, most obvious navigation indication. And it’s something that can be clarified in pre-dive briefing. If it’s agreed before the dive that everything will be left in place, there’s not the expectation that a team-mate exiting prior would have removed his cookie, and as such encountering the cookie doesn’t imply that the team mate is still in the cave.

 

[rjack321]

It was a crowded jump with multiple spools and markers that really sold me on the use of personalized presence markers for the team. To me it makes it easier to distinguish my team’s line. This is true in both normal and zero vis, but I’ve taken care to make sure my markers are both visually and tactile-ly very easy to identify. With the presence markers there’s more identifying information; ironically this is true especially if other teams are not using cookies to mark spools or reels. In that sense, maybe there’s a benefit to both practices being used.

In regards to the issue of leaving everything in place in the event of team separation, I can see the argument that everything should be left in place. The guiding principle is to make it as easy as possible for your lost team-mate to navigate out, and if it were me, I would want to encounter exactly what I had seen on the way in, especially in zero vis. Just thinking situationally, if I’m exiting at a navigation point and I have no idea where my team-mate is, chances are very good that the separation event happened deeper in the cave, and attempts to re-establish team contact have not been successful. Otherwise, why would I have proceeded to the navigation point?

The argument that leaving everything in team separation presents a more stressful situation to an exiting team-mate has some validity as well, because it provides no information about the team-mate’s status. But to me this is a lower priority than having the clearest, most obvious navigation indication. And it’s something that can be clarified in pre-dive briefing. If it’s agreed before the dive that everything will be left in place, there’s not the expectation that a team-mate exiting prior would have removed his cookie, and as such encountering the cookie doesn’t imply that the team mate is still in the cave.

Same, I am happy for a "this is our jump spool/line" marker when things are busy (although can be mitigated by not diving crowded caves...)

But in zero vis I am also not going to be jacking around studying six different markers blind and the "who is behind me or not" marker rapidly loses its value. That said, I am likely to wait someplace where the vis isnt as terrible (usually 5-10m closer towards the exit) for a teammate to emerge. I also expect them to wait there for me gas/CCR supplies permitting.

 

[crofrog]

Same, I am happy for a "this is our jump spool/line" marker when things are busy (although can be mitigated by not diving crowded caves...)

How is better/different than having your name written on your spool?

 

[rjack321]

How is better/different than having your name written on your spool?

I do NOT like fiddling with other people's spools checking initials or otherwise - and I hope nobody touches mine either. Initials or stickers or symbols on a cookie or REM are way more visible from a distance

 

[halocline]

I agree that just putting your initials on a spool is not as identifiable and invites others to mistake your spool for theirs. There’s another thing, for me personally, I want to have my marker on a jump line that I’m using to exit, regardless if I’m the one actually placing the jump. That means a cookie. I also like consistency, so I use my REM to tie into on a jump, regardless of the presence of a system arrow.