LP Warranty on AquaLung, SP, Apex etc.

[Lead_carrier]

My wife and I bought four apex regs for a total of $480 off LP. We just got them serviced and it cost $440 to service two sets of regs. Two dive shops have gone out of business over the last couple years in our town and a I can see why. I will by a new regulator every year off LP to avoid this LDS scam.

What is the average price to service a reg? I'm considering in taking a course on how to service regs which could pay for itself the first year.

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WOW!!.. Ship your regs to me.. I'll service them for a lot less than that, and I am an authorized dealer.
:sappy: I hope they at least kissed you afterward.

 

[scubatoys]

You say you just heard. The fact that you seem to be in competition with LP makes me a bit skeptical....

The annual sales meeting for ScubaPro just finished up in the Bahamas, and one of the individuals in attendence filled me in on some of what was discussed there. Keep in mind, SP is a division of Johnson Outdoors, which is a division of Johnson a family company... US Based (kenosha wisconsin... not far from where I went to school in milwaukee!). Any way... they had a head of the diving division, who was from Europe - and turns out was one of the main players making it possible for the gray market to continue. He has been canned... and the new head is an american with a much stronger vested interest in knocking out gray market sales - as it directly affects his paycheck - as he also gets bonuses based on US sales.

The other thing about SP - they have really done a great job at building a name reputation... that is why dive shops love the product. As another poster pointed out... we don't sell SP on the net. We can't - so in that aspect, I have really nothing to gain here other than trying to pass on info I've heard. I've had a lot of people call me and ask to buy a reg... and I tell them - hit their local shop - I just can't sell to them. But we do sell it in our shop. In fact if you check out the photos of our new store that is opening in the next few weeks, you'll see we have a whole section dedicated to SP.

New Building

In all honesty - if a manufacturer like SP cannot get a handle on bootlegged product - it really devaluates the product to the point where it is not worthwhile for the LDS to carry it. Right here in Dallas, we've had a huge falling out of dive shops. The second largest (next to us) just filed Chapter 7 last week - a Chain of 4 stores has dwindled to 1 and a half... others are in huge financial trouble. In all honesty... this is bad for me. I can't certify everyone in Dallas that wants to learn... Our new pool isn't that big!! It is better for me if there are more divers out there.

Really the funny thing is most of our customers turn to us - not because we are cheaper... but because if you ask a question, you will get an honest, educated answer. If you have a problem - we'll take care of it. I realize that everyone will purchase products where they feel they get the best value... and value is a combination of price, service, education, information and many other intangibles.

You mentioned that I'm in competition with LP... not really... I'm in competition with anyone who is trying to get the recreational dollar from the consumer... whether it be mountain biking, jet skis, wind boards, rock climbing gear, etc.

Am I worried about LP as competition?? again.. not really... I can match them 9 times out of 10 on price... and have a warranty for the consumer - whether they feel that's worth anything or not... varies... But I know they can't match me on knowledge about the product, and customer service. In all honesty... I think they are more worried about me... If you go to google and do a search for ScubaToys - you will see LP is buying a sponsored ad anytime someone puts in our name to try to steal our business.... But over 50% of our business comes from referrals... and you can't buy that....

Due to our volume of sales, I'm good personal friends with a large number of the presidents of some of the major scuba manufacturers, plus reps and other personell at most all the major companies - and in that capacity, I hear what steps they are taking to try to build their business and brands - I was just passing on some info I heard.

 

[Genesis]

The problem with SP, Larry, is the price-and-supply controls.

If SP would drop those, all these problems would go away - and so would the divers feeling like they have their 'nads in a vise.

BTW, Helen and family are trying to take Johnson Outdoors private. And, by the way, they've said they're not interested in "other offers", meaning that the entire transaction will a behind-closed-doors, board-rubber-stamp deal - if they pull it off.

Public companies aren't supposed to be run that way, but it does seem to be "par for the course" with them.

 

[jonnythan]

New store looks pretty *****in'. Going to open one up in Albany any time soon?

 

[miesemer]

If you go to google and do a search for ScubaToys - you will see LP is buying a sponsored ad anytime someone puts in our name to try to steal our business.

You may have some recourse if your company name is a registered trademark. I'm chasing some violators right now. Here's the instructions from Google to start the process.

Thank you for your email concerning an allegedly improper use of your
trademark in certain Google AdWords advertising. As stated in our Terms
and Conditions, advertisers are responsible for the keywords and ad text
that they choose to use on Google. We do, however, investigate such
matters as a courtesy to trademark owners.

When we receive a complaint from a trademark owner, we first determine
what ads appear when the trademarked term is searched. We review the
content of those ads to ensure that they are not misleading to our users.
Furthermore, we ensure that those ads are not improperly using the
trademark as a keyword trigger. If they are, we disable those keywords
from the ad campaign. We believe this represents a fair balance of each
party's interests.

To prevent fraudulent requests, and to help expedite the process, please
provide the following information in a signed letter on company
stationery:

1. Name of Company
2. Contact information (including email address)
3. List of trademark(s) at issue
4. The identity of the advertisement(s) at issue (via the URL stated on
the bottom line of the ad)
5. Whether you are concerned with:
- The advertisement's content, or
- The keywords that trigger the advertisement, or
- Both
6. If your site has an affiliate program, state whether affiliates are
permitted to use the trademark as a keyword or in their ad content.
7. Include the following statements:
- 'I have a good faith belief that use of the trademarks described above
with the advertisements described above is not authorized by the trademark
owner or its agent, nor is such use otherwise permissible under law.' and
- 'I represent that the information in this notification is true and
correct and that I am authorized to act on behalf of the trademark owner.'

8. Your signature.

Please send the above information to the following address:

Google, Inc.
Attn: Google AdWords, Trademark Complaints
2400 Bayshore Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043

Or by FAX: 650-618-1499
Attn: Google Trademark Complaints

Please note that the foregoing procedure applies only to the use of
trademarks in ads clearly marked as sponsored links on our results pages.
We do not process trademark claims for sites that appear in our search
results. We suggest that you contact the site owner directly with your
concerns.

We appreciate your patience in this matter.

Please feel free to email us at adwords-support@google.com if you have
additional questions or concerns.

We look forward to providing you with the most effective advertising
available.

 

[scubatoys]

The problem with SP, Larry, is the price-and-supply controls.

I guess you could call this a problem... or a business philisophy. While many of my reps are complaining about slow sales - the SP rep sees sales increasing. Having your product sold at the lowest price - if it means the downfall of your dealer base is not necessarily the best way to run a company. I've spent a lot of time talking to them about pricing, internet, etc... Obviously since I do a lot of internet business... I disagree with some of their ideas... but I can't condem them... and I do respect their decisions to attempt to hold the dealer base as an asset - not a liability to future sales, and taking steps to strengthen those relationships by taking out overseas gray markets is simply a business model. And they respect the fact that I will market the brands I carry in different ways. We sell 0 SP on the net... but will dedicate a lot of floor space to it... while some other brands that do well on my page - will only show up in my store on a rack in the back.

It's just marketing and business decisions... not right or wrong.

 

[Genesis]

I guess you could call this a problem... or a business philisophy. While many of my reps are complaining about slow sales - the SP rep sees sales increasing. Having your product sold at the lowest price - if it means the downfall of your dealer base is not necessarily the best way to run a company. I've spent a lot of time talking to them about pricing, internet, etc... Obviously since I do a lot of internet business... I disagree with some of their ideas... but I can't condem them... and I do respect their decisions to attempt to hold the dealer base as an asset - not a liability to future sales, and taking steps to strengthen those relationships by taking out overseas gray markets is simply a business model. And they respect the fact that I will market the brands I carry in different ways. We sell 0 SP on the net... but will dedicate a lot of floor space to it... while some other brands that do well on my page - will only show up in my store on a rack in the back.

It's just marketing and business decisions... not right or wrong.

Actually, that's not quite true.

Go over to Google and punch in "Nine West Antitrust".

Read and compare to the present situation.

Then decide - is it wrong or not?

 

[scubatoys]

New store looks pretty *****in'. Going to open one up in Albany any time soon?

I'm originally from Plattsburg, my brother is an attorney in Syracuse... Mom from Buffalo... Been there... Shoveled that!

Here in Texas - we're having a frosty winter... only got to 68 today! I think we'll stay here... But thanks for the invite!

 

[jonnythan]

If price fixing like that is illegal, why doesn't a shop (say, Scubatoys) just file a lawsuit against SP, Halcyon, Seaquest, Dive Rite, etc?

 

[gj62]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As an LDS manager in the early 80's, this same discussion about SP occured - only it was mail order, not internet. And every year at DEMA, etc, there would be a rumor that SP (and, to be fair, other dealers) would put a stop to it. *MAYBE* you would see some decrease. However, it is hard for a company - no matter how strong their brand - to buck economic realities. SP must prove - day in and day out - that their price controls, warranty, etc meet the consumer's need. If not, they will not be able to swing it.

I do know that LDS are caught in the middle, and I wish them luck. The cream of crop - like ScubaToys - will survive because people will stick with them through thick and thin. However, I believe the loyalty is to the LDS, not the brand, in most cases. So SP won't have free ride either...

Frankly, I don't see a number of mail order or internet equipment buyers switching to LDS' out of fear of SP's new policies. And the *minute* that sales are down for a given quarter, you can be your purge button there will be access to SP's on the grey market.

BTW - you don't think Apeks is waiting for a sudden shortfall of availability of SP stuff???

All I know is a pessimist is really an optimist with experience... (wow, how's that for jaded)