Looking into buying my first bcd (EU)

[UFOrb]

I own an XDeep Ghost, which is excellent for travel. I mainly dive warm with 3mm shorty or board shorts and rash vest, but I've used it with a full length 5mm in the red sea, with 10kg lead (12L alu tank). The wing has plenty of lift and feels streamlined in use. The v-shaped crotch strap is really comfy too. I've got the 3kg pockets, but managed to squeeze 4kg in each pocket and used 2kg trim on the tank to get 10kg. It's also very adaptable in terms of d-ring placement etc like any other BP/W.
I would probably go for the Zen if I did more diving here in the UK or wanted the option to dive doubles. It's fairly similar to the Ghost but the bigger backplate (SS or alu available) can be used for doubles and it has a sturdier double-shell wing, and it's still light enough for travel.

BTW, in terms of the Zen being unconventional you'd soon get used to it.
My first BCD was a SP Litehawk which was my first experience of a wing style BCD after using jackets style rentals but I got used to the back inflate pretty much straight away, and loved it. It was really great for travel but I needed something that had more lift for cooler waters / winter/spring red sea and is more sturdy. I was always a bit worried about clipping my camera off on the plastic d-rings too, so sold it on fleabay and got the Ghost - never looked back.

 

[Cheizz]

Zen Standard set: 19 kg of lift, weight 3.0 / 5.1 kg (alu/SS backplate) € 488 online
Zeos 28 Standard set: 13 kg of lift, weight 3.0 / 4.8 kg (alu/SS backplate) € 386 online
Zeos 38 Standard set: 17 kg of lift, weight 3.4 / 5.2 kg (alu/SS backplate) € 386 online

In terms of (travel) weight, not much in it. There is a price difference, though. And I think the Zeos has a bit more construction strength and is maybe a more stable platform for doubles, if that's in your future (you would need another wing, though).

 

[stepfen]

To the OP, have a look here:

Buoyancy compensators - Wings - DIVING-STORE.net

Buoyancy compensators - Wings

diving-store.net

(there is a currency selector on top right corner to choose your preferred currency).
I have the tecline one (17kg of lift but 15kg would be fine too) which now costs about 450 euros and I am very happy with it:

TecLine Donut 15 for a single cylinder - complete set / travel set

TecLine Donut 15 for a single cylinder - complete set / travel set

diving-store.net

The only thing I didn't like are the weight pockets, which I don't use (I use a belt).

 

[Wibble]

Bottom line: enough options I think, either BP/W or another type of back-inflate BC. And enough fine webshops in the EU that have stuff in stock.

Again, second hand really is best. Normally around half the full price and you'll get that back when you sell it.

Keep your eye out for two backplates: stainless steel and the lightweight aluminium. Harnesses are cheap; even a Halcyon harness is competitive in price!

As for wings, the Halcyon Eclipse is great for a single cylinder. They periodically come up but never when you're looking for one. However, when you do find one, jump quickly!

Also need the single tank adapter plate and 2, 3 or 4 weight pouches to fit on the cylinder. Once on you can barely tell the difference between a single tank and a twinset (until you try to touch the valve!). I never use weight belts; all ballast is on the rig.

 

[Cheizz]

2nd had is nice, but if there isn't a great 2nd hand market near you or not in the BP/W products.... Here in NL if there is some 2nd had stuff on offer, I can get there in 2 hours max and see and feel the products for myself before I purchase. Not sure if southern Croatia is the same when it comes to dive gear. And purchasing just off a bunch of photos... A new product doesn't have to be that expensive (and you know it will last a while).

 

[Cheizz]

To the OP, have a look here:

Buoyancy compensators - Wings - DIVING-STORE.net

Buoyancy compensators - Wings

diving-store.net

(there is a currency selector on top right corner to choose your preferred currency).
I have the tecline one (17kg of lift but 15kg would be fine too) which now costs about 450 euros and I am very happy with it:

TecLine Donut 15 for a single cylinder - complete set / travel set

TecLine Donut 15 for a single cylinder - complete set / travel set

diving-store.net

The only thing I didn't like are the weight pockets, which I don't use (I use a belt).

Tecline have several sets/configurations with or without weight pouches, different style webbings, different backplates...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What a shameless self-serving plug here. You are after mini-me companies because the well established real companies don't want to deal with you as they have real dealers and distributors and are well supported in the ENTIRE world and don't need suitcase trader smuggle their products from country to country.

This is hilarious. People here are going to remember my comment ten years from now. Yeah, that's great plugging. There are people who don't want to pay the large amount of shipping. I don't make any money from it. It is a hassle for me, but I do it anyway for other people's benefit. My offer stands to anyone who wants to take me up on it.

"Personal issues"?? Like what? You are making stuff up.

Do you listen to yourself? The way you refer to Deep 6 as a "mini me" company. I can't figure it out, but your repeated attacks on that company indicate that there is something. Maybe they didn't kiss your a** when you were on the NAUI board?

How much money are you going to bet? I need cash.

Oh, I'd definitely wager.

And you have measure that yourself of course? There isn't true at all, but you are an advocate for the "Mini Me" company with financial interest in the company.

Just look at the amount of bulky material! You think that material doesn't float? And yet again the "Mini Me" comment. You can't help yourself.

So your "mini-me" company deals with miniture suppliers that can't stay in business and the customer's investment is threatened with suppliers and vendors going out of business. This isn't something a real and well established company, such as AL/SP/Huish, worry about nor do their customers.

Nice strawman. No one is saying that other companies are worried about Deep 6. Bringing up irrelevant points doesn't strengthen your case.

You mean the countless posts and comments on SB aren't enough for you or you don't know how to make your fingers do the typing?

The only comment is that it is "comfortable". It certainly is, but no different to me that a regular BP/W. Why waste money?

Fortunately, the OP is probably not going to waste money on a proper BP/W.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

... A new product doesn't have to be that expensive (and you know it will last a while).

With a BP/w setup (which is sounds like is what is going to be chosen), unless you run your gear over, you will never need to replace your backplate. Though there are some funny bp designs (and I don't mean Xdeep, I really like their ghost. It is probably the best choice for warm water diving where you want the lightest BCD possible - as I dive a 5 mil and don't like to dive with extra lead weights, I prefer a SS BP and STA - not the bestchoice if you have to fly small planes where every gram counts).

Webbing is extremely cheap for new harnesses.

Everybody offers good, durable wings. Unless you are locked into a proprietary design, you can mix and match all 3 components.

 

[BoltSnap]

Do you listen to yourself? The way you refer to Deep 6 as a "mini me" company. I can't figure it out, but your repeated attacks on that company indicate that there is something.

Did I mention "Deep 6" anywhere and where did I attack them at all? I started out by talking about a Scubapro product and never mentioned Deep 6 at all, none, and you came along attacking SP and plugging your company, I never did.

Maybe they didn't kiss your a** when you were on the NAUI board?

I was on the NAUI board? When? No one told me.
And now you lie and attack NAUI as well, how grand of you.

It is a hassle for me, but I do it anyway for other people's benefit.

You are such a selfless great humanitarian.

Oh, I'd definitely wager.

How much? Euros in cash?

Just look at the amount of bulky material! You think that material doesn't float? And yet again the "Mini Me" comment. You can't help yourself.

What bulky material? The Wing or the harness? You know that nothing in the system is floaty, right? Not more so than a wing on the WP/W?

Nice strawman. No one is saying that other companies are worried about Deep 6. Bringing up irrelevant points doesn't strengthen your case.

I didn't mention "Deep 6" anywhere. You are proving the point that small miniature vendors without a proven distribution and support network are at the mercy of their supplier and "original equipment manufactures" and if one goes bust, their products disappear and they can't afford first line manufacturers or find alternatives. This doesn't happen with properly financed established international companies. This shows the inherent real risk in mini-me's. BUT, you don't care about that, you have lots of money to burn and you think that "other people's money" doesn't matter either.

The only comment is that it is "comfortable". It certainly is, but no different to me that a regular BP/W. Why waste money?

Fortunately, the OP is probably not going to waste money on a proper BP/W.

You see, no one at all attacked or said anything bad about your company you are trying so hard to plug in and promote, yet you take license to attack products and BRAND name companies that have been in business a lot longer than you have been around without provocation or ANY reason whatsoever. You can't make your point without attacking others. How low is that? You could've just recommended your cheap product sourced by your mini-me company from cheap nameless manufacturers who don't the financial strength and endurance to live through less than ideal conditions but you don't have the common sense nor the guts to see that.

 

[Wibble]

2nd had is nice, but if there isn't a great 2nd hand market near you or not in the BP/W products.... Here in NL if there is some 2nd had stuff on offer, I can get there in 2 hours max and see and feel the products for myself before I purchase. Not sure if southern Croatia is the same when it comes to dive gear. And purchasing just off a bunch of photos... A new product doesn't have to be that expensive (and you know it will last a while).

Agree. However... if they come up on eBay, which they do, there's a certain amount of buyer protection. Faecesbook also has some buy & sell scuba kit -- was a member of that many years ago, but no longer; people do tell me that there's a lot of kit for sale on there.

Anyway; keep your eyes open for when someone's selling something and jump.

In the meantime there's second-hand other stuff available which has the initial price reduction from the first buyer taken off.

For wings, just make sure they're doughnut wings, not horseshoe wings (the former are much better at equalising when dumping from one side; horseshoe wings need to to force the gas around to the other side by either rolling to one side or going a little vertical. To be fair, you do get used to it, but a horseshoe bladder's far better especially if you dive flat in the water.