- Messages
- 20,641
- Reaction score
- 15,127
- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
The Mares and Poseidons are qualified and available to recreational divers
my Kraken is in my profile picture actually
Looking for a recommendation regulators
- Thread starter drdfblackm
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
my Kraken is in my profile picture actually
Jiminy
Contributor
Okay, I am going to try and weight in with an admittedly less than comprehensive overview on cold water regulators.
First, attached below is a talking piece I created for my shop to try and facilitate an explanation of why it is not a simple yes/no attribute when discussing gear selection with my customers. In brief, a regulator freeze is not just equipment based. It is the regulator, it is the diver, and it is the dive that all combine to freeze it up.
Next, here is an excellent and informative article from ScubaLab. Be sure to explore the link for more info in this article, too: Why Scuba Diving Regulators Freeze
Next, my impression from all of the searching and reading I have done on NEDU cold water testing. This is NOT a definitive statement, just what my personal take-aways have been:
It seems NEDU tests and evaluates regulators that they are interested in, when they feel like doing so. They are NOT like UL Laboratories, performing independent testing on every possible item submitted for a fee, and so are not a comprehensive source of information. Those evaluation results seem to be made available to the public on a limited and delayed basis. I am confident they have done more testing since that 2010/2012 publication we can all find online, but that is the most recent I can find available to read. I am also pretty confident that there are more than just the 3 models listed in the Authorized for Purchase list in actual use by NEDU today. But I don't know what/where they are, or how they are selected/procured.
Now, from the select brands that I am familiar with, if I were purchasing a regulator today for critical use in an extreme cold water overhead environment, I would be choosing between a Mares Abyss Navy II and an Apeks MTX-R. That does NOT mean that I think those are the only suitable brands/models, but they are the ones that I know I would trust from my less than global knowledge and experience.
Notes on those two: Abyss Navy II is an oil filled sealed first stage. Poppet valve is NOT the current Mares standard part, as the previous generation is what NEDU tested, not the newer part. 2nd stage has a Teflon (or Teflon-like) coating on all interior parts to eliminate formation of ice crystals on any surface. Apeks MTX-R is the consumer version of the MTX that is sold to military and commercial customers. I do not know if anything other than color and part number was changed. The MTX-R WOB is 1.75 joules/liter, substantially higher than the rest of the Apeks coldwater models that range from .70 to .90. I have questioned this before, and have been assured that it is accurate, as that is what it took to align with the current NEDU thinking and expectations.
First, attached below is a talking piece I created for my shop to try and facilitate an explanation of why it is not a simple yes/no attribute when discussing gear selection with my customers. In brief, a regulator freeze is not just equipment based. It is the regulator, it is the diver, and it is the dive that all combine to freeze it up.
Next, here is an excellent and informative article from ScubaLab. Be sure to explore the link for more info in this article, too: Why Scuba Diving Regulators Freeze
Next, my impression from all of the searching and reading I have done on NEDU cold water testing. This is NOT a definitive statement, just what my personal take-aways have been:
It seems NEDU tests and evaluates regulators that they are interested in, when they feel like doing so. They are NOT like UL Laboratories, performing independent testing on every possible item submitted for a fee, and so are not a comprehensive source of information. Those evaluation results seem to be made available to the public on a limited and delayed basis. I am confident they have done more testing since that 2010/2012 publication we can all find online, but that is the most recent I can find available to read. I am also pretty confident that there are more than just the 3 models listed in the Authorized for Purchase list in actual use by NEDU today. But I don't know what/where they are, or how they are selected/procured.
Now, from the select brands that I am familiar with, if I were purchasing a regulator today for critical use in an extreme cold water overhead environment, I would be choosing between a Mares Abyss Navy II and an Apeks MTX-R. That does NOT mean that I think those are the only suitable brands/models, but they are the ones that I know I would trust from my less than global knowledge and experience.
Notes on those two: Abyss Navy II is an oil filled sealed first stage. Poppet valve is NOT the current Mares standard part, as the previous generation is what NEDU tested, not the newer part. 2nd stage has a Teflon (or Teflon-like) coating on all interior parts to eliminate formation of ice crystals on any surface. Apeks MTX-R is the consumer version of the MTX that is sold to military and commercial customers. I do not know if anything other than color and part number was changed. The MTX-R WOB is 1.75 joules/liter, substantially higher than the rest of the Apeks coldwater models that range from .70 to .90. I have questioned this before, and have been assured that it is accurate, as that is what it took to align with the current NEDU thinking and expectations.
As far as normal stuff like service kits they are tightening up access, pretty much like all other makers but so far it’s only added a few days, I pre buy and replace as used. Other parts like a Monel jet seat conversion kit took weeks but these aren’t in big demand 16 years after the change over so it may not be indicative of a bigger problem. Other internal repair parts seem to take a few weeks longer to get, I haven’t given up on them just yet.
Cold? And I mean COLD - I'd be on a double hose (modern, or vintage with modern "guts"... yes, I could show that damn picture again.....
My modern regs for true cold water (Great Lakes) are Poseidon Xstream & SP MK-17/G250v (Great Lakes below the thermocline, recreational and tech). The wife & daughter dive HOD D1-Cold and CLassics for water in the low to mid 40's for Great Lakes recreational...
My modern regs for true cold water (Great Lakes) are Poseidon Xstream & SP MK-17/G250v (Great Lakes below the thermocline, recreational and tech). The wife & daughter dive HOD D1-Cold and CLassics for water in the low to mid 40's for Great Lakes recreational...
At this link. Select the "Specifications" tab and scroll down. 2nd from the bottom.
http://www.apeksdiving.com/us/products/diving-regulators/product/mtx-r.html
As I said, I have questioned this number as I was surprised by how it is, and I have been assured it is accurate. It is primarily meeting NEDU needs, not those of an average recreational diver.
I'm not familiar with the cracking pressure number. In your comment" As I said, I have questioned this number as I was surprised by how it is, and I have been assured it is accurate. It is primarily meeting NEDU needs, not those of an average recreational diver."
Is it high or low for your surprise?
Is it high or low for your surprise?
Work Of Breathing is NOT the same as cracking pressure. 1.75 is high compared to all other Apeks and Aqualung models. However, I have not dived it to know if I can even tell the difference. WOB has gotten so good with current designs that we may be splitting hairs on the difference between .70 and 1.75 joules per liter. Maybe someone else has more definitive info.
Jiminy
Contributor
Similar threads
