Log Book

[ScubaGil]

Personally I log mine on my computer with Subsurface.

With that you can add as many comments as you wish, log details of equipment etc and also add media.

I use Subsurface as well. I take notes after the dive about what I saw, the dive site, etc.. and once I'm home I load that into the appropriate dive in Subsurface and print it out. It then goes in binder so I have paper and digital copies. It's also compatible with my Linux machine

The only real downside I have is that I don't get the cool stamps on the pages

 

[Neilwood]

I use Subsurface as well. I take notes after the dive about what I saw, the dive site, etc.. and once I'm home I load that into the appropriate dive in Subsurface and print it out. It then goes in binder so I have paper and digital copies. It's also compatible with my Linux machine

The only real downside I have is that I don't get the cool stamps on the pages

I keep forgetting to get the stamps & signatures anyway.

 

[Skeptic14]

There is nothing for you to do today or tomorrow, but the backup drive will eventually need to be replaced, and the cloud service may change at some point down the road. The cloud-based service may go out of business, and you may not take whatever action is required to preserve your data because you are occupied with something else at that time in your life--maybe you took a hiatus from diving. Nothing that requires ZERO work on your part is as permanent as paper.

I wouldn't state either is better than the other, it's a preference thing...

However, the suggestion that a paper logbook(or any archived info) is more permanent, better protected/secured against being lost, damaged or misplaced and will stand the test of time better and with less effort than a digital one is IMO (also as a computer engineer... for whatever that's worth) nonsense.

Our entire modern world refutes that assertion, doesn't stop someone from preferring paper, but lets not base it on erroneous rationale.

 

[Lorenzoid]

However, the suggestion that a paper logbook(or any archived info) is more permanent, better protected/secured against being lost, damaged or misplaced and will stand the test of time better and with less effort than a digital one is IMO (also as a computer engineer... for whatever that's worth) nonsense.

Our entire modern world refutes that assertion, doesn't stop someone from preferring paper, but lets not base it on erroneous rationale.

You did see the qualification about electronic recordkeeping requiring some amount of "work," right? That's my point. Long-term electronic recordkeeping is the bomb, but it comes with some cost or responsibility (diligence) that is greater than what needed for the same amount of paper recordkeeping. If someone would, at no cost to me, ensure that my logbook would be accessible to me in electronic form for the rest of my life, I would be happy to take advantage of that.

Whatever platform or format the data is stored in today, it will no doubt have to be migrated to something else at some point. Someone has to do that. It may take mere minutes, but someone has to keep tabs on things simply to know it needs to be done, and then actually do it. I don't want the burden of keeping my electronic systems up to date for the rest of my life. (My laptop and phone are already years out of date.) You either have to keep tabs on these things yourself, or you pay a service to do it. Either way, that's work. If it slips your mind 20 years from now when you're no longer actively diving, you might lose your access. I have books on my shelf that are older than I am and have required almost zero work to maintain. I will have access to them in my old age, no matter what the state of electronic technology may be or my ability to use it. I really hope that when I am so elderly as to be unable to dive that I will still enjoy looking through my log book. I'm already looking forward to the day when I don't need to have a computer in front of me or a smartphone in my pocket. I will not be a slave to technology.

 

[scubadada]

I keep a logbook, download to my computer, and keep a spreadsheet. I've been using this logbook for 12 years, 1100 dives, and like it very much. I take out pages and archive them whenever it gets a bit too fat.
Scuba dive log refill packs, logbooks, binders, stamps, and accessories

 

[Skeptic14]

You did see the qualification about electronic recordkeeping requiring some amount of "work," right?

Sure... but to suggest that paper archives don't require as much effort or diligence is the part I was referring to as nonsense.

We're talking about button clicks for cloud/local archiving which can also be automated and every couple years buying perhaps a new external media device versus being constantly vigilant about protecting paper from being lost, spilled on, torn, pencil/pen fading over decades, being misplaced, lost in home fire, lost in plane luggage, accidentally thrown out during spring cleaning, I mean the list goes on.

Digital archiving isn't effortless but it's much less effort and much more reliable than paper. Doesn't mean someone can't prefer paper... but it's not an easier, more reliable, better source of redundancy for archiving purposes, just like cave drawings aren't better than paper.

edit ---

For further reading, look into our national archive and the effort and diligence required to maintain the physical historic documents... temperature, humidity, light, and special storage needs...

 

[NorCalDM]

Look at www.dive-logs.com you can design your own and the turn around is pretty fast.

 

[2airishuman]

I keep electronic logs. Nonetheless:

the suggestion that a paper logbook(or any archived info) is more permanent, better protected/secured against being lost, damaged or misplaced and will stand the test of time better and with less effort than a digital one is IMO (also as a computer engineer... for whatever that's worth) nonsense.

Our entire modern world refutes that assertion, doesn't stop someone from preferring paper, but lets not base it on erroneous rationale.

I work in IT, have for a Very Long Time, and have some personal records and things, in electronic form, that were, at the time, intended to be permanent.

Some of them are on nine track tape.

I had some stuff on various sizes of floppy disks which I migrated as new formats came out, for a while, but still have some that use 3.5" floppy discs.

I have some stuff on hard disks with backups to CD-Rs, and things, but that are difficult to access because they were written in the now-obsolete Wordpad format, which cannot be opened by modern word processors.

Things in more specialized formats, like some of the music notation formats and old financial/tax software, require more arcane software, in some cases software that does not run on modern computer systems.

With time, money, and effort, I suppose I could probably read any of this stuff. But it doesn't exactly peg my fun-o-meter to screw around for an afternoon trying to read old files, the same way it does to look through an old notebook or something.

The problem is not a new one. Libraries and archives deal with it all the time. The general rule curators cite is that the media itself will usually outlive the playback equipment. In 10, 20, 50 years, will you be able to find a USB stick reader?

 

[Skeptic14]

The problem is not a new one. Libraries and archives deal with it all the time. The general rule curators cite is that the media itself will usually outlive the playback equipment. In 10, 20, 50 years, will you be able to find a USB stick reader?

So for $20 you can buy a usb floppy drive and have it next day from amazon

So no worries, you don't need to keep your early 2000s pc forever.

USB has been around now for 20 years, so the answer to 10, 20? Is a resounding yes. With USB 3.0 the interface is continually being updated and improved... that's one way that technology advances, it builds on previous foundations. Not always, sometimes new technology doesn't provide backward compatibility but it's not typically a surprise.

Anybody lose valuable data on a zip disk because you didn't see the writing on the wall? (BTW, you can get a usb zip drive off amazon too )

When the next great storage device is conceived, no worries make sure and download a copy from your cloud to said new storage device.

Anyway, sure, even electronic archiving requires some effort, but to suggest it's not as reliable, not as safe and requires more effort than paper just isn't true.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sure... but to suggest that paper archives don't require as much effort or diligence is the part I was referring to as nonsense.

We're not talking about "paper archives"--we're talking about a single physical logbook as opposed to something in a computer memory. It sits on my bookshelf. It requires almost no diligence to ensure it is there for decades. Which one of us is talking nonsense?

We're talking about button clicks for cloud/local archiving which can also be automated and every couple years buying perhaps a new external media device . . . .

To me, and perhaps others, that is some effort right there. "Automating" anything requires that you manually take a look every once in a while to make sure it is still doing what it's supposed to be doing, and nothing inadvertently changed. If you delegate it to someone else, you still have to check up on that person (or service) now and then. If you pay a service annually, you need to make sure automatic payments continue. You need to keep track of yet another password for the service. As for "external media devices," I am not interested in keeping track of how old ANY of my electronic devices are for the rest of my life, and whether it might be time to buy a new one.

... versus being constantly vigilant about protecting paper from being lost, spilled on, torn, pencil/pen fading over decades, being misplaced, lost in home fire, lost in plane luggage, accidentally thrown out during spring cleaning, I mean the list goes on.

Amazingly, none of the books on my bookshelf that I really care about have suffered any of that over the decades. I treat my logbook as I would any important book. It's not of the level of importance that I would put it in a bank vault to guard against fire or theft, as I would something like the deed to my house. If my home suffered a fire or flood, I would have bigger things to worry about than diving. As I mentioned in a previous post, I generally don't take my paper logbook in luggage.

Digital archiving isn't effortless but it's much less effort and much more reliable than paper.

If you are saying that digitally archiving a dive logbook "isn't effortless but it's much less effort ... than paper," then I disagree. Reliability is tied to effort. The more effort, the more you can be assured your data will be there in the future.

For further reading, look into our national archive and the effort and diligence required to maintain the physical historic documents... temperature, humidity, light, and special storage needs...

How is that relevant to a dive logbook? I am not talking about the National Archives' collection or even a company's important business data. I'm talking about a simple dive logbook that an ordinary person wishes to maintain and be able to look at as effortlessly as possible for as long as possible--maybe the rest of his life--even if he's no longer actively diving or no longer as computer-savvy as he was in his youth. In this context, I see an advantage in paper beyond merely the visceral enjoyment that some may derive from paper, pens, books, etc.: less effort.