Log Book

[TMHeimer]

So what's a log for really for? Is it just for personal record keeping? What if I don't keep dive logs? Is there ever a requirement to show someone my dive logs? For rentals? For boat dives? For advanced training?

Technically Yes to all but probably rentals, where you need the c card only--unless it's some sort of special advanced stuff, I guess. No one has ever looked at my book for any reason. But I guess you're completely safe if you keep one anyway--just in case.

 

[doctormike]

I haven't been back to this thread in a couple of weeks.



If I were doctormike, it would make sense to treat my dive data as I already do my OTHER data. But I don't already have OTHER data. I don't even have photos on my computer or anywhere else, as I don't take many photos. I have nothing stored digitally that's really important to me. Copies of old tax returns and stuff like that are in a file cabinet.

If I have to think about backing up and forward migrating and do something about it now and then over the years, then it is not "trivially easy" to me. If my computer dies or I forget with what cloud service I stored my data because I'm old and senile, I will not care. I admit I am the extreme case. I'm not trying to persuade anyone else.

Sure, and certainly I'm not saying that using a digital dive log is like being aware of your tank pressure - something that is intrinsic to safe diving and non-negotiable. And if you really feel that maintaining digital data is not important in your life overall, the log is no different.

But one of the main purposes of these threads is advising new divers on our opinions on our own diving practices. Having and caring for the digital data in our lives is a very common part of being an adult in 2016. That's not to say that you can't be a responsible adult without doing that, but more and more it's becoming the exception rather than the rule. Are good email habits (including sorting, archiving and promptly replies) absolutely necessary? Well, people got along for a long time without them, but I'm sure not going to hire a 25 year old today who doesn't have them.

So my point is that it really CAN be trivially easy if you want it to be, and if it's important to you. One of the points that I have been trying to make is that data isn't the same thing as the medium that it's stored on. Your data should be always protected and safe - your laptop will never be. For example, I have thousands of scans of family photos ranging back to the late 19th century, with metadata about who is in each one. That's for me, but it's also for some descendant that I will never know many years for now. And I make the effort to make sure that data will be there for him or her. You know, just like Doing it Right!

 

[Neilwood]

I certainly find it easier to log all my dives on PC than in my log book. With Subsurface (my choice of digital log) you can log all the relevant information for the dive including a number of items that can be important later and it is pretty simple to look up. Also once information is entered (such as wetsuit thickness, weight, dive site) it is there to enable a shortcut in future. I now dont have to enter 7mm wetsuit, I just enter 7mm and it autofills wetsuit. With weights, I can log what weights and where (harness, belt, integral etc). So particularly if diving a site I have done previously (where the GPS coords are already in), I reckon I can log a weekends dives (including dive profiles, SAC etc) in about 2 minutes.

It also gives me a clear picture of my dive profile so I can see if there are any issues requiring looking at in future such as ascent rate. No paper log gives me that.

 

[Skeptic14]

So my point is that it really CAN be trivially easy if you want it to be, and if it's important to you.

This...

Every time I hear about the difficulties and effort levels required for storing, backing up and providing redundancy for digital data I think of people in infomercials inventing non-existent problems for some only for tv product...

Community Post: 38 GIFs Of Stupid Infomercial People

 

[doctormike]

This...

Every time I hear about the difficulties and effort levels required for storing, backing up and providing redundancy for digital data I think of people in infomercials inventing non-existent problems for some only for tv product...

Community Post: 38 GIFs Of Stupid Infomercial People

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
But one of the main purposes of these threads is advising new divers on our opinions on our own diving practices. Having and caring for the digital data in our lives is a very common part of being an adult in 2016. That's not to say that you can't be a responsible adult without doing that, but more and more it's becoming the exception rather than the rule. Are good email habits (including sorting, archiving and promptly replies) absolutely necessary? Well, people got along for a long time without them, but I'm sure not going to hire a 25 year old today who doesn't have them.

I agree. I have "good email habits" and more ... at my place of employment. Maintaining records is critical in my work. Most of the documents I work with are in electronic form. We have all kinds of backup systems in place at the office, all taken care of by an IT staff. Maybe that's why I'm so resistant to doing anything like that with my home computer.

.So my point is that it really CAN be trivially easy if you want it to be, and if it's important to you. One of the points that I have been trying to make is that data isn't the same thing as the medium that it's stored on. Your data should be always protected and safe - your laptop will never be. For example, I have thousands of scans of family photos ranging back to the late 19th century, with metadata about who is in each one. That's for me, but it's also for some descendant that I will never know many years for now. And I make the effort to make sure that data will be there for him or her. You know, just like Doing it Right!

There is always ultimately a physical storage medium somewhere, even in "the cloud." My point is not that the data is likely to be compromised. Rather, my point is that if you don't keep an eye on the service that takes care of your data in the cloud, you may lose it. It may still be on a storage medium somewhere, but if you don't remember whose cloud storage or backup service you used back in 2016, since it changed names a few times after being sold to Internet giant X which later merged with Internet giant Y while you weren't paying attention, you might lose track of it. Maybe they sent you an email, which slipped through the cracks when you changed email services. I have email addresses I currently use and old ones I no longer use but continue to maintain, and even older ones I can't remember.

Speaking of geneaology, one of my distant cousins did some research a few years ago and shared it with all the family members he could find. It was fascinating stuff. I think some of it was through one of those services such as Ancestry.com, and some of it was stored elsewhere--maybe Google Drive or something like that. You see, I lost track of where it's located. There was originally an email from my cousin giving us the links to the material, but I cannot seem to find that email. I don't back up emails, and maybe it was longer ago than I thought--and on some old computer, hard drive, thumb drive, etc., which I no longer have. It's only slight exaggeration to say I'm not even sure I can find his email address to contact him to ask for the location of the geneaology information. And I hope he's continued to pay Ancestry.com's fee, or else they might delete his account. If I want to pass this information on to my descendants, they too would need to be informed of and keep track of where it is stored and possibly have to pay fees periodically. Can my descendants for the next 100 years rely on Ancestry.com to always be there, and if not, then what kind of backup procedures are needed to ensure my descendants can access the information? Have we as a society really come to the point where we not only need to tell our family where our wills can be found, but also where all our "data," from financial records to family photos, can be found, and all the passwords, etc.? It's not just all in the file cabinet and desk drawers anymore. I suppose I could write the locations and passwords down on paper and store that paper in my file cabinet or desk drawer, or store it in my safety deposit box and then store the key in the desk drawer. To me, that is anything but "trivially easy." To me, trivially easy is shoving a paper in my file cabinet or putting a book on a shelf. Booting up the computer, logging onto something by entering a user name and password, figuring out what buttons to click on, etc., is a bit of a chore to me. Maybe for the 25 year-olds who always have an up-to-date electronic device in their hand throughout the day, it's more natural.

 

[LariatAdvance]

Log books? People still actually use those? I think the last time I saw mine was back in 2006 maybe.

 

[GameChanger]

Being a creature of habit, (and an admitted snob resort diver), once I find a great dive shop in the exotic land I am visiting, I tend to stick with them and this allows them to get to know my skillsets (or lack thereof).

I use MacDive with my Oceanic OC1 computer because it really is "plug & play" for dive logging. I can customize the fields as well.
I have hundreds of dives with no logs however. I was originally certified in the early 70's with NASDS and I still have their C-card but there are no records to back it up, including the more advanced cert levels I attained. I have a PADI EAN card and I really like the E-card version that I have loaded on my iPhone. It will also accommodate logging through ScubaEarth, but I choose the MacDive system instead.

BTW...I still keep a paper log just because I am old school and I find it relaxing to jot down a few notes about my dives at the end of the day. I am posting this from Grand Cayman and I just logged two fantastic dives off the East End. Easy Peasy.

Another pina colada please!

 

[Lorenzoid]

Log books? People still actually use those? I think the last time I saw mine was back in 2006 maybe.
Maybe it's a local thing but I haven't found any dive shops that require me to present one in order to dive with them.
And if they did I'd question the validity of something I can just print out and fill out myself. That would be sorta like the DEA allowing you to write your own prescription. LOL

That's just one of several possible reasons to keep a log book. A lot of people keep them because they find it enjoyable, like keeping a diary. It's information the diver can go back and look at, either just for fun, or to look up facts about the dive site, weather conditions, boat, equipment and weights they used, who their dive buddies were, etc. If I want to know what dive op I used in Cozumel in 2010 and what I thought of them, I can look it up.

 

[doctormike]

I agree. I have "good email habits" and more ... at my place of employment. Maintaining records is critical in my work. Most of the documents I work with are in electronic form. We have all kinds of backup systems in place at the office, all taken care of by an IT staff. Maybe that's why I'm so resistant to doing anything like that with my home computer.

There is always ultimately a physical storage medium somewhere, even in "the cloud." My point is not that the data is likely to be compromised. Rather, my point is that if you don't keep an eye on the service that takes care of your data in the cloud, you may lose it. It may still be on a storage medium somewhere, but if you don't remember whose cloud storage or backup service you used back in 2016, since it changed names a few times after being sold to Internet giant X which later merged with Internet giant Y while you weren't paying attention, you might lose track of it. Maybe they sent you an email, which slipped through the cracks when you changed email services. I have email addresses I currently use and old ones I no longer use but continue to maintain, and even older ones I can't remember.

Speaking of geneaology, one of my distant cousins did some research a few years ago and shared it with all the family members he could find. It was fascinating stuff. I think some of it was through one of those services such as Ancestry.com, and some of it was stored elsewhere--maybe Google Drive or something like that. You see, I lost track of where it's located. There was originally an email from my cousin giving us the links to the material, but I cannot seem to find that email. I don't back up emails, and maybe it was longer ago than I thought--and on some old computer, hard drive, thumb drive, etc., which I no longer have. It's only slight exaggeration to say I'm not even sure I can find his email address to contact him to ask for the location of the geneaology information. And I hope he's continued to pay Ancestry.com's fee, or else they might delete his account. If I want to pass this information on to my descendants, they too would need to be informed of and keep track of where it is stored and possibly have to pay fees periodically. Can my descendants for the next 100 years rely on Ancestry.com to always be there, and if not, then what kind of backup procedures are needed to ensure my descendants can access the information? Have we as a society really come to the point where we not only need to tell our family where our wills can be found, but also where all our "data," from financial records to family photos, can be found, and all the passwords, etc.? It's not just all in the file cabinet and desk drawers anymore. I suppose I could write the locations and passwords down on paper and store that paper in my file cabinet or desk drawer, or store it in my safety deposit box and then store the key in the desk drawer. To me, that is anything but "trivially easy." To me, trivially easy is shoving a paper in my file cabinet or putting a book on a shelf. Booting up the computer, logging onto something by entering a user name and password, figuring out what buttons to click on, etc., is a bit of a chore to me. Maybe for the 25 year-olds who always have an up-to-date electronic device in their hand throughout the day, it's more natural.

Having done a lot of archiving, I will tell you that shoving papers in a drawer is not a good way to ensure availability to future generations. The point is not any one specific service, but an overall approach to data with redundancy (like local backups), non-proprietary formats (like GEDCOM and jpegs).

Look, I don't mean to be snarky here, and I also understand that electronic log keeping isn't for everyone. But I think that you are bringing up problems that aren't necessarily insurmountable. It comes down to whether or not the data is important to you. If it is, you develop good data handling habits, and they quickly become second nature. Since ALL of my data is backed up by the same, simple, background processes (cloud and dual external hard drives), I don't need to worry about ancestry.com or an online dive log or the specifics of one company or the other. My genealogy photos are stored as JPEGs on my hard drive, my genealogy data is stored as a GEDCOM and as a Reunion file on my hard drive, my financial data is stored in other formats, they are all in one place that is triple backed up. I don't have different processes for backing up my dive log and my email - it's all one simple background process that doesn't require specific intervention on my part.

Sure, cloud services rely on a physical storage medium too - with incredible redundancy at that point, but I suppose that it is possible that something like an EMF attack or nuclear war could make that inaccessible as well. But then there are the local backups. At some point, it's just like planing redundancy in diving. We don't make contingency plans for three simultaneous failures, because then we would never go under water.

Does developing these habits require some attention to detail, to learning some basic processes...? Sure! Just like diving.