Kudos to the Ginnie Staff

[notabob]

If the requirement gets to the point that you have to have $12K worth of gear to try into to cavern and cave or tech diving in general (the key word is TRY!), then there will be many less tech and cave divers in the future. Good for you guys but bad for the sport in general.

Thanks for all the effort put forth in this thread! I appreciate it!

You're welcome. That's what these threads are here for - for everyone to hopefully learn something new.

You don't need doubles for cavern. If you want to check out the overhead environment and see if it's for you - take cavern. If you get bit by the bug, then you won't feel as bad shelling out the money for the doubles and getting proficient with them in open water prior to taking ANY cave class.

Besides, you can always rent and borrow someone else's if you just want to give it a try and see if doubles are for you - in open water, mind you! What a lot of people seem to forget, is that cave diving, of any sort, is tech diving! We've all come to accept the use of doubles for any sort of technical diving - deep, deco, wreck penetration, etc. No one ever argues that point, or suggests that we do deco dives on a single with an H-valve. Yet, here's a type of diving that puts you very far into an overhead environment, much further than the inside of a wreck, and no one seems to be able to make a connection between the two. Just because you didn't go into deco, doesn't mean it's not a tech dive and can be done on a single. You still got that VERY solid overhead above you, and a long swim back, should sh!t hit the fan. And just because people used to do it on a single before, doesn't mean we still should. Times change, we expand our understanding of the sport and risks involved, we grow as divers - the agencies, and specifically their rules, must grow with the times.

-Roman.

 

[Jason B]

First off, Soggy, get rid of the burst disks. They have as much business in an overhead as a single.

I see all the GUE/DIR-f divers are the main ones in here screaming about this. I understand where you are coming from (and agree 100%) but, keep in mind the NACD and the NSS-CDS have very different outlooks than GUE on matters such as gear config. These agency have divers doing singles, isolation manifold doubles, straight bar manifold doubles, independent back mount doubles, side mount, no mount (single tank).

 

[Soggy]

I see all the GUE/DIR-f divers are the main ones in here screaming about this.

Notabob and I have both taken DIRF, but our technical training is through NAUI Tech and NACD.

I agree on plugging the burst disk, but that doesn't solve the bolt getting sheared by contact with the ceiling.

 

[Mark Vlahos]

I agree on plugging the burst disk, but that doesn't solve the bolt getting sheared by contact with the ceiling.

I feel that the Halcyon manifold is a well made piece of hardware, but it is that single point of possible failure that motivated me to purchase a Thermo instead.

To ameliorate the burst disk failure situation I replace that part with the anual rebuild.

Mark Vlahos

 

[Spratman]

I agree 100% regarding tech diving and doubles. I dive regularly with wreck divers, and I think I'm the only single tank diver with the group. I'm one of those guys that adhere to the rules, especially what you do not do. I wouldn't attempt any penetration on wrecks or caves without an adequate amount of instruction by a certified, competent instructor, and the correct equipment configuration required for the tasks at hand.

Early in my life I was fascinated by caves and geology. That faded away because of my Army career. Now I'm older and the interest in historical wrecks and underwater archeology has been rekindled.

Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I'm always willing to listen and change whatever I'm not doing correctly when I'm shown that I am wrong.

Happy diving, Roman!


You don't need doubles for cavern. If you want to check out the overhead environment and see if it's for you - take cavern. If you get bit by the bug, then you won't feel as bad shelling out the money for the doubles and getting proficient with them in open water prior to taking ANY cave class.

Besides, you can always rent and borrow someone else's if you just want to give it a try and see if doubles are for you - in open water, mind you! What a lot of people seem to forget, is that cave diving, of any sort, is tech diving! We've all come to accept the use of doubles for any sort of technical diving - deep, deco, wreck penetration, etc. No one ever argues that point, or suggests that we do deco dives on a single with an H-valve. Yet, here's a type of diving that puts you very far into an overhead environment, much further than the inside of a wreck, and no one seems to be able to make a connection between the two. Just because you didn't go into deco, doesn't mean it's not a tech dive and can be done on a single. You still got that VERY solid overhead above you, and a long swim back, should sh!t hit the fan. And just because people used to do it on a single before, doesn't mean we still should. Times change, we expand our understanding of the sport and risks involved, we grow as divers - the agencies, and specifically their rules, must grow with the times.

-Roman.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jason B]

So now it's okay to enter a cavern or a deco in a single or an h-valve, but not okay for the intro diver to be limited to a single? So who actually decides when an overhead becomes an overhead? Whenever it meets your agenda?

 

[Soggy]

So now it's okay to enter a cavern or a deco in a single or an h-valve, but not okay for the intro diver to be limited to a single? So who actually decides when an overhead becomes an overhead? Whenever it meets your agenda?

Who are you replying to?

 

[Jason B]

Who are you replying to?

Sorry, I guess it's notabob and jbliesath.

Speaking of notabob, I've always wondered, is that like "not a bob" as in your name is not Bob? Or is that your last name, or it may just be none of my business (you know how the mind wonders) eyebrow .

 

[karstdvr]

how many cave fatalities involve students in single tanks?

None

This includes intro divers diving a single

Fatalities of intro cave divers on doubles - several

Our sport is based on rules that have been created due to fatalities. Do the above facts neccessitate rule changes???

 

[notabob]

So now it's okay to enter a cavern or a deco in a single or an h-valve, but not okay for the intro diver to be limited to a single? So who actually decides when an overhead becomes an overhead? Whenever it meets your agenda?

First of all, I don't have an agenda. You obviously confuse me with someone else. Perhaps someone who may care about a rather large pool of potential intro students and their wallets - who wouldn't shell out the cash so easily if they suddenly had to take the class in doubles. I'm not suggesting anyone does, just thinking outloud...

And I never suggested that doing deco on a single was ok. In fact, have always said quite the opposite. I do feel that the very limited overhead that exists inside a cavern can be adequately managed in a single tank utilizing thirds. In a cavern, penetration is very minimal, and if you followed rules, you're close enough to the daylight exit which is always visible. You're not 1000ft back inside a cave when it's time to turn and problems start happening.

-Roman.