Kudos to the Ginnie Staff

[notabob]

Sorry, I guess it's notabob and jbliesath.

Speaking of notabob, I've always wondered, is that like "not a bob" as in your name is not Bob? Or is that your last name, or it may just be none of my business (you know how the mind wonders) eyebrow .

It is 'not a bob'. As in 'my name is not Bob'. Long story that has something to do with halloween and a cow.

 

[GDI]

GUE is right! GUE is right! Diving GUE is DIR!


Which clearly indicates that you are not GUE trained.

I am surprised that this thread has continued but this is actually a good thing. While you were all having the discussion continue I was out diving or working on my garage. I have read the complete thread and I am taking note of your points. I have addressed this and other things with the training director.

Please allow me to respond to the above statements(with a tone of humour).

Your right I'm not GUE trained, I am trained by DWW! (Doing What Works) and therefore I feel I am free to dive the world.

Am I DIR? Yes I am and I believe so because I do:

Diving
In
Restrictions

Soggy did make a note of your hose routing in your avatar. I am surprised that you are wearing a snorkel (on the right side). Please tell me you are not GUE trained?

Did you not catch the reference to GUE not wanting singles? GUE is right. Anyone who disagrees is wrong, will die, and will disgrace the entire diving community with their incompetence!

While many of you are arguing these points I have to look at the fact that many of you were recently trained at the intro level. In fact many of you were trained at this level by NACD instructors. So are any of the instructors from other agencies not competent?

Questions to all involved in this thread and those who will or wish to be::

Did you not know that when you signed on to this course that you were in fact signing onto a single tank cave class?

Did your instructor not explain the standards and expectations following your training?

Did your instructor not mention the process that would permit diving in doubles?

Do you consider that at the cavern level you are not diving in all the much of a overhead that this should not warrant doubles?


The record of fatalities of intro divers wearing a single tank is "0, zelch, zippo, notaone". Say what you want about stats and how they can be made to fit the argument, but in the end dead is dead.

I agree those who will break the rules will do so regardless of what they are wearing for a gas supply it is in their nature to do so and they will do so. In the end however should they die they are added to the stats. In the cave diving community we call this accident analysis. It is accident analysis that drives our S&P's

 

[Soggy]

I agree those who will break the rules will do so regardless of what they are wearing for a gas supply it is in their nature to do so and they will do so. In the end however should they die they are added to the stats. In the cave diving community we call this accident analysis. It is accident analysis that drives our S&P's

What you are describing is a reactive, rather than proactive approach. Lots of people haven't died doing stupid things, but it doesn't make those actions any more justifiable. It's called getting lucky.

 

[BabyDuck]

Did you not know that when you signed on to this course that you were in fact signing onto a single tank cave class?

Did your instructor not explain the standards and expectations following your training?

Did your instructor not mention the process that would permit diving in doubles?

Do you consider that at the cavern level you are not diving in all the much of a overhead that this should not warrant doubles?

yes, i did. yes, he did. yes, he did. no, that wasn't a consideration since i don't dive doubles yet. though i have been on many websites this afternoon pricing tanks...

 

[lamont]

What you are describing is a reactive, rather than proactive approach. Lots of people haven't died doing stupid things, but it doesn't make those actions any more justifiable. It's called getting lucky.

Also, it may indicate lack of numbers. If intro divers in singles progress rapidly onto doubles, then you wouldn't expect to see a whole lot of accidents in singles.

 

[scubafool]

I have been following this thread since it's beginning, but no one has mentioned this, so I will.

What does everyone think of allowing doubles, but limiting the size. Maybe 72's? Maybe even smaller, say LP 50's? Do away with the Discretionary Apprentice, allow 1/3rds of the smaller cylinders. This limits penetration just as well as the single tank, while gaining the redundancy of doubles.

Oh, and how's that garage coming along?

 

[notabob]

I have been following this thread since it's beginning, but no one has mentioned this, so I will.

What does everyone think of allowing doubles, but limiting the size. Maybe 72's? Maybe even smaller, say LP 50's? Do away with the Discretionary Apprentice, allow 1/3rds of the smaller cylinders. This limits penetration just as well as the single tank, while gaining the redundancy of doubles.

Oh, and how's that garage coming along?

If you're going to allow doubles, why limit the amount of usable gas? That makes no sense. Such a restriction won't stop anyone who wants to dive larger tanks anymore than the limit on singles. What it will do, however, is get the new intro students into a mindset of diving thirds on doubles (whichever size), which is a bad idea.

-Roman.

 

[scubafool]

Because, as I understand it, the idea behind the single tank rule is to limit penetration, by limiting the amount of gas that the diver carries. And, if I understand the argument against the single tank rule correctly, the single tank is less redundant than doubles.

 

[H2Andy]

how many cave fatalities involve students in single tanks?

None

This includes intro divers diving a single

Fatalities of intro cave divers on doubles - several

Our sport is based on rules that have been created due to fatalities. Do the above facts neccessitate rule changes???

exactly!

this is a manufactured, non-existant problem. hate to say it, but it
sounds like some people want some publicity.

What you are describing is a reactive, rather than proactive approach. Lots of people haven't died doing stupid things, but it doesn't make those actions any more justifiable. It's called getting lucky.

as karstdvr pointed out, the rules in cave diving were made as a direct
result of deaths.

no dead intro divers in singles = no need to change the rules

it ain't rocket science :14:

seriously, this "catastrophic single tank failure at your exact maximum
penetration range" is probably statistically non-existent.

 

[scubafool]

as someone pointed out, the rules in cave diving were made as a direct
result of deaths.

no dead intro divers in singles = no need to change the rules

I think that a very pertinent question could be asked.

How many Intro divers are doing how many dives with singles?

Compared to how many Intro divers are doing how many dives with doubles?