Key Largo-Rainbow Reef dives

[FinnMom]

Hey guys? I'm afraid you've overestimated general interest in your arguement. The board also has a private message sytem for folks that are just taking to each other.

 

[iluvtheocean]

Hey guys? I'm afraid you've overestimated general interest in your arguement. The board also has a private message sytem for folks that are just taking to each other.

i still can't figure out what exactly it was about to start with and where it went... i ended up reading it for the popcorn factor
PM's are good to avoid TOS violations if it descends to far yup

 

[T.C.]

Hey guys? I'm afraid you've overestimated general interest in your arguement. The board also has a private message sytem for folks that are just taking to each other.

You are aware that he realized his argument was untenable and quit four days ago, right?

Second; I have little interest in how others view me. I will speak my opinion whether it's the popular opinion, the unpopular opinion, or the indifferent opinion.

PM's are good to avoid TOS violations if it descends to far yup

But then other divers can't learn from the points being discussed.

 

[MMM]

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[Omisson]

Irrelevant.

No DM is the scuba police. They don't GET to make value judgements like, "you look unskilled, you have to follow me". Diving does not work that way.

Look it's fine if you don't want to dive with an op that requires a DM. Take your money and find one you like. Have at it. Free country.

But since YOU don't pay the carrying insurance in case some bonehead half baked diver drowns, don't criticize a dive op that wants to take added precautions.

You're not paying the thousands of dollars a year in liability insurance THEY ARE. You are not the one who's whole life savings invested in their business can disappear overnight with an accident where a diver dies (often even when it's the divers own fault because of the absurd lawsuits).

When you have the money to buy your own dive boat, pay the mooring fees in the tropics, buy the fuel to run it, and have the funds to staff the boat, adhering to all the licensing, insurance, and coast guard rules THEN you can criticize the dive ops choice...

Till then you are a speaking out of turn... And it's pretty common


Dan-O

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Look it's fine if you don't want to dive with an op that requires a DM. Take your money and find one you like. Have at it. Free country.

But since YOU don't pay the carrying insurance in case some bonehead half baked diver drowns, don't criticize a dive op that wants to take added precautions.

You're not paying the thousands of dollars a year in liability insurance THEY ARE. You are not the one who's whole life savings invested in their business can disappear overnight with an accident where a diver dies (often even when it's the divers own fault because of the absurd lawsuits).

When you have the money to buy your own dive boat, pay the mooring fees in the tropics, buy the fuel to run it, and have the funds to staff the boat, adhering to all the licensing, insurance, and coast guard rules THEN you can criticize the dive ops choice...

Till then you are a speaking out of turn... And it's pretty common


Dan-O

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

Where in the U.S is a D.M. REQUIRED to be in the water with you. It's hard enough finding ops that provide guides, Rainbow Reef is one of only 2 that I know of in Key Largo. In the Caribbean they require guides, not because of liability issues, but because they don't want the bad press of loosing divers.

 

[T.C.]

But since YOU don't pay the carrying insurance in case some bonehead half baked diver drowns, don't criticize a dive op that wants to take added precautions. You're not paying the thousands of dollars a year in liability insurance THEY ARE. You are not the one who's whole life savings invested in their business can disappear overnight with an accident where a diver dies (often even when it's the divers own fault because of the absurd lawsuits). When you have the money to buy your own dive boat, pay the mooring fees in the tropics, buy the fuel to run it, and have the funds to staff the boat, adhering to all the licensing, insurance, and coast guard rules THEN you can criticize the dive ops choice...

Actually...if the operation could lose everything, there are several in the Keys that should be out of business. They are not.

Next, these operations have no fear of lawsuits. Point out the last sucessful lawsuit against a dive op based on simple (not gross) negligence. You can't, because it's never happened.

Putting a DM in the water does not decrease risk or liability or even act as a precation. In reality, putting a DM in the water increases your risk and liability. Now, you have provided what even a half-trained lawyer can prove is a Dive Professional (words that will carry great weight with a jury) and that implies a Duty to Care. Regular recreational divers do not have a duty to care, and are immune from liability.

By not putting a DM in the water, a boat can only be responsible for what they can see on the surface. But put one in the water, and now you can be shown responsible for what happens below.

The fact is that a DM in the water is rare in the Keys. Rainbow provides it because it is a selling point to their target audience; new vacation divers who want to be lead like sheep around the reef, told when to turn, and look at the pretty fish. They don't tell you that they're charging you for this, by building it into your dive cost and cramming you onto a cattleboat with 30 other divers.

This makes dangerous, dependent divers; again, increasing everyone's risk. So, yes, I can criticize the choice that they operation is making.

 

[Max Speed]

Rainbow's dive masters aren't getting wealthy and perform a lot of boat duties besides guiding. The incremental cost can't be much. You can follow them or go your own way. You get a cookie in either case.

 

[conchrandy]

FWIW an in the water card carrying DM carries their own liability insurance and names the dive op as "additional insured". Anything less i.e. an uninsured DM and you're playing russian roulette. Not sure how this applies to Rainbow, but nothing is free; I would assume that their DM's are licensed and as such receiving a professional wage.

You would be amazed with some of the hidden costs associated with dive ops. You have a store policy, a hull policy, (diving activities excluded) a crew policy (even the captain should be a DM). In the litigious age we operate in, you several layers of protection. It's not unusual for a single boat to carry 5 mil in insurance. And somebody is paying for that.

 

[Diver0001]

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