orsor
If they have that much authority, why do I need DAN? They should be responsible for anything that goes wrong. Why teach diver that we are responsible for our on safety if the DM on the boat is responsible? And what was the outcome of the case, what rules did this guy not follow, it could have been as simple as talking during boat briefing to being rude to others on the boat.
only you are responsible for your safety..Dm is not responsible except to ensure safe practices are followed. the deceased failed to stay with their buddy and exceeded safe diving recommendations with respect to time and depth.
Case not yet resolved, the dive boat and operator have gone out of business.
No one wants to be involved in an accident. Even if the boat operator/dm is found not to be at fault due to inept diver having accident there will almost always be an expensive lawsuit to defend and loss of business and reputation. Most dive operators want to sleep at night.
---------- Post added May 4th, 2014 at 01:24 PM ----------
ithatect and indirect observation I
In terms of liability, putting a DM in the water increases your liability. Now, in the jury's eyes, you put a Professional Diver in the water, made them responsible for the other divers, and a jury may see this as a duty to care.
does not increase liability, actually decreases it.shows that standard duty of care was used and dm attempted to increase divers safety for those that he felt may need guidance.
Why,
oh why, couldn't these good experienced dive pros on the second boat see how poorly skilled this diver was?[/QUOTE]
dive pros like every individual in life have different views on what may be safe or not. They erred by not doing what a reasonably prudent dive pro would do.
Why, with their magical insight into the mind of a diver and into the future, couldn't they see how dangerous he was?
[/QUOTE]Is it because, contrary to your assertions, there
is not a way to reliably spot these divers before hand; that there is
no magical ability one gains when they buy their instructor/DM card? people vary in decision making capabilities, they are human, and no one is perfect.
to say someone brought a card might happen in your world not in mine.
everyone has different skills and abilities. the old saying is what do you call the doctor who graduated last in his class out of medical school? DOCTOR.
[/QUOTE]Face it, if he'd walked up to your boat, and you too had never met him, you'd have let him on your boat too. He would have been confident, sure of himself, handled his gear well, and given you no warning signs.
Exactly like I stated before. Your insight would have failed you, just as the operators of the vessel he was on failed to spot him.[/QUOTE]
Nope. through direct and indirect observation I most likely would have either gone to a location that fit the divers training and experience, or insisted that a dive pro accompany him, or deny him passage.
I have denied passage to some in the past and will do so in the future. Most recent was on a group I took to Bonaire..because of unsafe practices the individual and his wife are denied to travel with us on our store sponsored trips, permanently. They have tried to get on 3 separate trips with us since and denied each time..rather lose a customer than have some one get themselves dead on a dive.
---------- Post added May 4th, 2014 at 01:33 PM ----------
ithatect and indirect observation I
In terms of liability, putting a DM in the water increases your liability. Now, in the jury's eyes, you put a Professional Diver in the water, made them responsible for the other divers, and a jury may see this as a duty to care.
does not increase liability, actually decreases it.shows that standard duty of care was used and dm attempted to increase divers safety for those that he felt may need guidance.
Why,
oh why, couldn't these good experienced dive pros on the second boat see how poorly skilled this diver was?[/QUOTE]
dive pros like every individual in life have different views on what may be safe or not. They erred by not doing what a reasonably prudent dive pro would do.
Why, with their magical insight into the mind of a diver and into the future, couldn't they see how dangerous he was?
[/QUOTE]Is it because, contrary to your assertions, there
is not a way to reliably spot these divers before hand; that there is
no magical ability one gains when they buy their instructor/DM card?
people vary in decision making capabilities, they are human, and no one is perfect.
to say someone brought a card might happen in your world not in mine.
everyone has different skills and abilities. the old saying is what do you call the doctor who graduated last in his class out of medical school? DOCTOR.
[/QUOTE]Face it, if he'd walked up to your boat, and you too had never met him, you'd have let him on your boat too. He would have been confident, sure of himself, handled his gear well, and given you no warning signs.
Exactly like I stated before. Your insight would have failed you, just as the operators of the vessel he was on failed to spot him.[/QUOTE]
Nope. through direct and indirect observation I most likely would have either gone to a location that fit the divers training and experience, or insisted that a dive pro accompany him, or deny him passage.
I have denied passage to some in the past and will do so in the future. Most recent was on a group I took to Bonaire..because of unsafe practices the individual and his wife are denied to travel with us on our store sponsored trips, permanently. They have tried to get on 3 separate trips with us since and denied each time..rather lose a customer than have some one get themselves dead on a dive.
