Key Largo-Rainbow Reef dives

[oly5050user]

TC think what you you like but examples I listed happen every day on boats ..I have been in the activity over 40 years and thru observation skills can tell if someone is comfortable walking on a dock with gear and setting it up. Just as a good street cop can tell if someone is acting nervous thru their body language because they may be doing something illegal a good experienced dive pro can see if there are issues to attend to. Handicap people do develop a work around method to make things easier for themselves, if I see that it shows me they have experience and should not be a problem.
With over. 5,000 dives and having certified over 1,000 people,working here in the northeast , having set up a dive shop, owning and running it, selling it and the coast guard inspected vessel with it making $$$ at it, working for bit down in the USVI as an instructor is a lot of experience gained over the years..what do you have for experience? A couple of years maybe? About 200 dives? You say the DM is not the boss of the boat..Sorry to inform you but he is one of the bosses of the boat, like it or not..First is the captain,who is in charge of running the vessel,navigating and then the DM who is in charge of supervising diving activities. Supervision can be done from boat deck or in water if necessary. Don 't like the rules, don't go on their boat. I rather loss a customer than have to bring a dead one to the dock.
waivers will not protect the boat or the crew if there is gross negligence proven. Leave divers behind at sea,and they die,gross negligence and the DM and capt can kiss all their assets goodbye. There have been quite a few of these types of cases that have caused a loss to dive operators and they go out of business..TC, Me thinks you protest too much. I have absolutely no problem being asked for proof of experienced or being asked to demo skills before being allowed to dive. I find those that protest or get insulted being required to demonstrate a simple skill check are those who need to be watched carefully.
I look at it as an opportunity to play it up a bit. I might put a mask on upside down and clear it and continue the dive as if nothing is wrong, or maybe just slip my mask into a pocket and do the entire dive without it, just to see if anyone even notices.

 

[Max Speed]

Rainbow Reef- They give out cookies when you get back on the boat. Only possible improvement...giving out hot dogs. #1 in my book. The boat? Always right where I left it.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[ZombieZombie]

Ah, the guide was male not female. So maybe you weren't in our group.

And as for Rainbow Reef, I wasn't upset about having to wait for the boat to come to us, and didn't hold it against the guide. He had only been doing this for a few months. I just would have preferred to have done four different dive sites rather than three. Or at least have been given an explanation about why were returned tothe same place.

Per my posts on this thread, I was in your group last Friday morning.

The dive I mentioned above were just an add on to a discussion about the quality of dive guides from Rainbow Reef and was on Monday. I was explaining that my earlier observation of being left by the guide was proven wrong when I watched the video. I didn't say that you were part of that dive.

 

[T.C.]

TC think what you you like but examples I listed happen every day on boats ..I have been in the activity over 40 years and thru observation skills can tell if someone is comfortable walking on a dock with gear and setting it up.

And how many poor divers are absolutely confident in themselves, walk with a swagger, quickly set up their gear, and turn into disasters in the water; poor trim and bouyancy, can't control their depth, break their plans, and suck down way too much air, or even run into an OOA situation?

Just as a good street cop can tell if someone is acting nervous thru their body language because they may be doing something illegal a good experienced dive pro can see if there are issues to attend to.

And just as the street cop often mistakes irritation for nervousness, you can't read a person. You'd be suprised by how often cops are wrong on their judgment of people; because they automatically assume that certain clues equal criminal. This is why profiling is both a bad idea, and illegal.

As a instructor/DM, There may be a very small group that you think you can sense, but there are others that will slip by you until you see them floundering underwater. And I know this happens far more than you will admit here. You don't have mind reading or future telling skills, and despite your claim; you're not picking up "issues" like you think you are.

I've heard this "My instructor/DM card give me magical abilities to read divers" argument before. It's false, and I'm not falling for it; and I urge other divers not to either. This is how we end up with dependent divers and "trust me, I'm a DM" dives.

With over. 5,000 dives and having certified over 1,000 people,working here in the northeast , having set up a dive shop, owning and running it, selling it and the coast guard inspected vessel with it making $$$ at it, working for bit down in the USVI as an instructor is a lot of experience gained over the years..what do you have for experience? A couple of years maybe? About 200 dives?

And what does the average DM in the Keys have? This thread was started by a diver whose guide could not navigate in one of the easiest environments- the Florida Keys. He was new to his job. He probably had less experience than most of his divers. Most DMs are not Super-Diver, and they're too busy lugging gear, setting up the boat, tending lines or eyeing the hot girl/guy in their swimsuit to pay much attention to the divers walking up. Your argument has a logical flaw in it.

You say the DM is not the boss of the boat..Sorry to inform you but he is one of the bosses of the boat, like it or not..First is the captain,who is in charge of running the vessel,navigating and then the DM who is in charge of supervising diving activities. Supervision can be done from boat deck or in water if necessary. Don 't like the rules, don't go on their boat. I rather loss a customer than have to bring a dead one to the dock.

No. DMs are not in charge of divers in the water. The boat's captain has authority, but the DM does not. Trying to force dive plans down divers throat, telling them they must stay in the flock, or can't dive their dive plan (provided it's safe) are just attempts to control divers. As this thread has proven, DMs are not infallible. I trust myself; I will not trust someone just because they bought a DM card.

waivers will not protect the boat or the crew if there is gross negligence proven. Leave divers behind at sea,and they die,gross negligence and the DM and capt can kiss all their assets goodbye. There have been quite a few of these types of cases that have caused a loss to dive operators and they go out of business.

Please read my post. Those are gross negligence. But simple negligence, like saying they should have noticed a struggling diver or overweighted diver are simple negligence. There has not been a successful simple negligence suit against a dive op with a waiver.

Second, the DM and Captain will not lose their assets, even in a gross negligence case. They may lose licenses, but zero personal assets. Why? Because they are acting as employees of a company. The company is liable, not the individual.

TC, Me thinks you protest too much. I have absolutely no problem being asked for proof of experienced or being asked to demo skills before being allowed to dive. I find those that protest or get insulted being required to demonstrate a simple skill check are those who need to be watched carefully.

Go ahead. There are people here who know how I dive. I'll show you my card. If that isn't good enough, and you ask for a skill demonstration; I will be insulted; and I will either leave, or that will be my last trip with your company. I have little tolerance for unjustified sillyness like this.

 

[CajunDiva]

The boat? Right where I left it

Amen, brother!

 

[Timmyjoe]

Rainbow Reef- They give out cookies when you get back on the boat. Only possible improvement...giving out hot dogs. #1 in my book.

They also give out bottles of water, which I really liked on a hot day when my mouth was dry after a dive.

Best,
-Tim

 

[oly5050user]

For those who think the DM is not there to supervise dive activites and are conducted safely, i suggest you not go on a boat that the dive activities are being run by one..don't like the boat rules go elsewhere where crew is not afraid of possible lawsuits.. their boat,their rules..quite a few dive operators regularly ban divers who are known to be a danger to themselves and others. one recent case here in NY involved one diver who got thrown off a boat and banned to ever be on it for not following crew directions,No problem,he goes to another operator..He then won a Darwin Award and wound up dead from his unsafe practices on that 2nd boat..

 

[T.C.]

go elsewhere where crew is not afraid of possible lawsuits

In terms of liability, putting a DM in the water increases your liability. Now, in the jury's eyes, you put a Professional Diver in the water, made them responsible for the other divers, and a jury may see this as a duty to care.

No problem,he goes to another operator..He then won a Darwin Award and wound up dead from his unsafe practices on that 2nd boat..

Why, oh why, couldn't these good experienced dive pros on the second boat see how poorly skilled this diver was?

Why, with their magical insight into the mind of a diver and into the future, couldn't they see how dangerous he was?

Is it because, contrary to your assertions, there is not a way to reliably spot these divers before hand; that there is no magical ability one gains when they buy their instructor/DM card?

Face it, if he'd walked up to your boat, and you too had never met him, you'd have let him on your boat too. He would have been confident, sure of himself, handled his gear well, and given you no warning signs. Exactly like I stated before. Your insight would have failed you, just as the operators of the vessel he was on failed to spot him.

 

[Narcosiss]

Some people feel they are above authority no matter where they are !

 

[T.C.]

Some people feel they are above authority no matter where they are !

And some feel they have to impose 'authority' they don't have on others.

As I've said, it's the mentality that a DM/instructor is needed to dive that produces dependent, dangerous divers. Take away that person, and these divers have lost the ability they once had to plan and conduct dives.

It is the mistaken belief that these people have authority that gives that to them. THEY DO NOT. No one that buys a DM/instructor card has authority over another diver that is not in their class.

I won't follow a DM underwater; it's more dangerous than planning and conducting my own dive. Disclose this rule ahead of time, I will leave. Try to impose this rule on my without my foreknowledge, and I, and many other divers will just laugh at you. A DM has no authority to require you to do anything.

As I said, they are not the Scuba Police, though many think that buying their card makes them so.