Key Largo-Rainbow Reef dives

[Max Speed]

I would assume that their DM's are licensed and as such receiving a professional wage.
.

Your could put it that way if you consider living on tips to be a "professional wage".

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Actually...if the operation could lose everything, there are several in the Keys that should be out of business. They are not.

Next, these operations have no fear of lawsuits. Point out the last sucessful lawsuit against a dive op based on simple (not gross) negligence. You can't, because it's never happened.

Putting a DM in the water does not decrease risk or liability or even act as a precation. In reality, putting a DM in the water increases your risk and liability. Now, you have provided what even a half-trained lawyer can prove is a Dive Professional (words that will carry great weight with a jury) and that implies a Duty to Care. Regular recreational divers do not have a duty to care, and are immune from liability.

By not putting a DM in the water, a boat can only be responsible for what they can see on the surface. But put one in the water, and now you can be shown responsible for what happens below.

The fact is that a DM in the water is rare in the Keys. Rainbow provides it because it is a selling point to their target audience; new vacation divers who want to be lead like sheep around the reef, told when to turn, and look at the pretty fish. They don't tell you that they're charging you for this, by building it into your dive cost and cramming you onto a cattleboat with 30 other divers.

This makes dangerous, dependent divers; again, increasing everyone's risk. So, yes, I can criticize the choice that they operation is making.

If rainbow reef charges the same or less than the other ops, how are they building into the price? also, whats wrong with going with a guide at an unfamiliar place. another good thing about RR is I've never been crammed in a "cattle boat" and you have a choice of shallow or deep. you also have the choice of going with the guide.

 

[T.C.]

If rainbow reef charges the same or less than the other ops, how are they building into the price?

So are they letting this guy work for free? Does he not get paid? Those wages are built into the price. Rainbow is a business, they exist to make money- nothing less. To think that Rainbow will just eat the cost of paying a DM defies logic and common sense.

This guide has a price, and the divers pay for him; it is just lumped into what you pay for the charter. Take away the guide, and the price of the charter could be less.

Comparing their price to others is pointless. Every shop has different expenses, and will have arrived at their price from different angles. One of the factors in Rainbow's "angle" is the cost of the DM in the water. Like it or not, the DM is not free; you pay for him whether you follow with the rest of the flock or not.
And some people don't like to be charged for things we don't need. There are better charters for less out there.

also, whats wrong with going with a guide at an unfamiliar place.

If you feel you need a guide on a 25' reef dive on a site with clear water, no currents and no waves, then so be it. Those are the sort of divers that Rainbow thrives on.

Just because it's unfamilar, doesn't mean you need a guide.

another good thing about RR is I've never been crammed in a "cattle boat" and you have a choice of shallow or deep.

Then, while I really doubt this statement is true, you've been lucky. Every Rainbow boat I've seen has been packed full of divers.

I have never seen one with any space open.

 

[drrich2]

This guide has a price, and the divers pay for him; it is just lumped into what you pay for the charter. Take away the guide, and the price of the charter could be less.

There's a way around this. A business that does more volume of customers can often provide a product or service at a lower per-unit price. If providing guides draws in a large number of customers, this may let Rainbow Reef offer a 'per diver' rate that is not greater, because the larger customer base brings economy of scale sufficient to offset the cost of the guides.

This is all the more important in a market where some competitors don't offer 'included' guides, which makes doing so a differentiating point for a business.

When I dove with Rainbow Reef, I paid $600 (plus tax & tips) for a 10 2-tank boat trip package, dove every dive, and so I had 20 boat dives for$30 apiece plus tax & tips. Hard for me to imagine a charter boat op. out of the U.S. offering a substantially cheaper dive experience than that.

Richard.

 

[T.C.]

Well, as I said before, with QDS, I have a dive price of $31 over the 14 dive trip, including taxes. Considering the clear benefits of QDS, that's a great deal.

Rainbow's guide offering means that, coupled with their location in major hotel, they're targeting a specific audience; divers who don't know there's anything better out there. The customer volume may keep the cost down, but there is still a hidden cost for the "free" DM.

 

[The Chairman]

Rainbow Reef has one of the most successful Instructor programs in the nation. In fact, I think that they produced more PADI instructors than anyone else last year and the year before. They use a lot of interns in their operation and there's certainly no harm in that. I think it's great that they get exposed to such a quality dive operation like Rainbow Reef.

I have to ask T.C., have you ever dove with Rainbow Reef? Have you?

 

[oly5050user]

Rainbow Reef has one of the most successful Instructor programs in the nation. In fact, I think that they produced more PADI instructors than anyone else last year and the year before. They use a lot of interns in their operation and there's certainly no harm in that. I think it's great that they get exposed to such a quality dive operation like Rainbow Reef.

I have to ask T.C., have you ever dove with Rainbow Reef? Have you?

I have sent ow customers there to finish up their ow dives with RR, no problem. I have sent an AI there from our facility as our schedule could not work out for him and he returned with his owsi.
When I get back to Key Largo I'll look up Elena and Net Doc again, maybe we will get a dive in on RR..
...the interns there for their IDC's work as DM's, and I highly doubt they are paid, so there is actually no "hidden costs" in the charter fee.
Emilio / Hope

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

So are they letting this guy work for free? Does he not get paid? Those wages are built into the price. Rainbow is a business, they exist to make money- nothing less. To think that Rainbow will just eat the cost of paying a DM defies logic and common sense.

This guide has a price, and the divers pay for him; it is just lumped into what you pay for the charter. Take away the guide, and the price of the charter could be less.

Comparing their price to others is pointless. Every shop has different expenses, and will have arrived at their price from different angles. One of the factors in Rainbow's "angle" is the cost of the DM in the water. Like it or not, the DM is not free; you pay for him whether you follow with the rest of the flock or not.
And some people don't like to be charged for things we don't need. There are better charters for less out there.

How is comparing the price pointless if I'm spending my money. Unless QDS site is wrong, a 2 tank dive is $85 Rainbow Reef is $75

If you feel you need a guide on a 25' reef dive on a site with clear water, no currents and no waves, then so be it. Those are the sort of divers that Rainbow thrives on.

Just because it's unfamilar, doesn't mean you need a guide.

Where in my statement did I say someone needs a guide?

Then, while I really doubt this statement is true, you've been lucky. Every Rainbow boat I've seen has been packed full of divers.

I have never seen one with any space open.

Okay

 

[John_B]

So are they letting this guy work for free? Does he not get paid? Those wages are built into the price. Rainbow is a business, they exist to make money- nothing less. To think that Rainbow will just eat the cost of paying a DM defies logic and common sense.

You really have no idea how the whole DM thing works, do you?

 

[conchrandy]

Absolutely no problem with RR and their positioning in the Upper Keys. We all have our own little niche-QDS for their personalized service, OD for the old school Carl Gage type delivery, me for the recreational Open Water types. Good for them, best wishes.

The only thing I question is their apparent exposure to liability using DM's or "guides" ostensibly under their 'Directional and Control'. Either they are certified DM's or not. If they are then they (the DM's) should carry liability insurance available through PADI et al for themselves and the dive op. I can't think of any other way to circumvent this kind of exposure; your store policy doesn't reach to the dive. The crew, the in water guides, whether card carrying DM's or not must provide the coverage.