Jill Heinerth training video

[beni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJY0daxiHA&feature=player_embedded#!

Hey guys! I came across this video, which I found pretty "disturbing" and wanted to ask your opinions on it.
Can anyone explain the horrible buoyancy skills demonstated in the video (not to mention the equipment setup) before I loose all respect for the instructor? A kind fellow forum user pointed out that it's one thing to enroll in a class ... passing it is a different story.

Note: I'm only an OW diver, but I would like to get into cave diving eventually so I'm pretty interested in the subject.

 

[rongoodman]

They look stressed and excited and very new--been there, more or less done that. I expect Jill had them looking much more relaxed by the end of the class.

 

[ucfdiver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJY0daxiHA&feature=player_embedded#!

Hey guys! I came across this video, which I found pretty "disturbing" and wanted to ask your opinions on it.
Can anyone explain the horrible buoyancy skills demonstated in the video (not to mention the equipment setup) before I loose all respect for the instructor? A kind fellow forum user pointed out that it's one thing to enroll in a class ... passing it is a different story.

Note: I'm only an OW diver, but I would like to get into cave diving eventually so I'm pretty interested in the subject.

In their defense, the flow at that site is very difficult when you're new, and top that with the fact that videoing a cave dive is very distracting, blinding, and task loading. I do not agree with adding such stress to new cave divers, but clearly the instructor was comfortable with it.

 

[Jax]

In their defense, the flow at that site is very difficult when you're new, and top that with the fact that videoing a cave dive is very distracting, blinding, and task loading. I do not agree with adding such stress to new cave divers, but clearly the instructor was comfortable with it.

Is that why the single tank yellow fins seemed to hold on to the rock, and use her knees?

 

[ucfdiver]

Is that why the single tank yellow fins seemed to hold on to the rock, and use her knees?

Well, holding onto the rock isn't at all uncommon in Ginnie. If I had to guess she's using her knees so that she doesn't turn and get caught in the flow.

Look around 1:25 of a video a buddy and I shot in Ginnie a while back and watch my bubbles to see the flow. Now imagine having completed a few hours of lecture, trying new skills, being evaluated, and having bright video lights in your face all during your first cave dive.
http://vimeo.com/14916851

I don't think what's being seen here is acceptable, but I *do* think it's clear what's stressing the divers in the video.

 

[Dsix36]

I took my cave class with Jill and am happy to say that she taught me very well and very thoroughly. She was not like a drill seargent about gear configuration. She would tell us what was wrong, what had to be changed, and explain why it was the way it was. I will never forget her telling me this "The cave will let you know if something doesn't work". I have no doubt that these divers were much improved before the class was over.

 

[Doppler]

Well, you asked for my opinion, so here goes.

The student in the video displays about average skills for someone starting cavern/intro... no more, no less.

Why do you find that disturbing? What exactly is wrong with the student's kit configuration? AND why would any of this prompt you to loose all respect for the instructor.

The job of an instructor includes giving course participants achievable goals and helping them to develop stronger skills... and pointing out their shortcomings.

I'd suggest you need to get over yourself and take a more holistic and strategic view of the world. But then, that's just my opinion.

 

[57Writer]

That is why it is called "TRAINING." I used to take my US Navy classes outside our training building on their first day to read aloud from the sign: "U.S. Navy SCHOOL" It did not say "U.S. Navy Building of I ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING." I pointed out that if anyone thought they did not need some schooling, they could apply for my job the next morning.
Lighten up, the diver in question is a student on the first day...and the instructor is among the most respected in the business.

 

[divermike1011]

Jill is a quite accomplished diver and videographer in her own right. I don't see the connection between spastic new students and an instructor's ability. Now if someone had passed a cave course and was spastic that would be different, but that's not the case here.

Michael

 

[beni]

Well, you asked for my opinion, so here goes.

The student in the video displays about average skills for someone starting cavern/intro... no more, no less.

Why do you find that disturbing? What exactly is wrong with the student's kit configuration? AND why would any of this prompt you to loose all respect for the instructor.

The job of an instructor includes giving course participants achievable goals and helping them to develop stronger skills... and pointing out their shortcomings.

I'd suggest you need to get over yourself and take a more holistic and strategic view of the world. But then, that's just my opinion.

I'm sorry but I find your "get over yourself" comment very underserved. I do not think highly of my diving-skills, and I don't even try to hide the fact that I'm a very unexperienced diver.

Your position can be understood and justified, but let me highlight the situation from another point of view. If I took a CCR Instructor course with 25 dives under my belt, I'm sure I would learn a bunch from it and I'm sure my instructor would kindly point out my shortcomings during the class but probably outside observers would shake their heads in disapproval. But hey: who is to blame? I payed for it and I only want to get better and pursue my dreams of becoming a CCR instructor right after receiving my OW certification. The instructor on the other hand does everything in his power to guide me through the excercises and help me to get better. So why can't I take that class?

The job of an insturctor in my opinion also includes making sure that the student is up to the task before taking her money or at least before leading her into the cave (hence the prerequisites), and that girl is clearly not 10 dives away from possesing above-averag buoyancy control skills, which I believe should be essential for diving in this environment. I'm not questioning that she is a good teacher, but I don't think there is any other reason for allowing that girl to take that class other than money.

Anyways: if you think that crawling trough the tunnels is what an average diver would do in that situation, than I clearly made a mistake of pointing that out, pardon my harsh opinion and this topic can be closed... I meant that in an ironic way at first, but I can perfectly understand the instructor's decision even if it's contrary to the view I look at training in general.