Japanese open fire on Sea Shepherd crew

[cdreamer]

Originally Posted by cdreamer
Mr. "I don't eat it because I don't need to and it's not my culture."




Kim,
Why would YOU consider YOUR own words to be a personal attack?
Maybe because your mixed message is a little confusing and hypocritical?
If the Japanese culture is not "your culture" then why do you support and
defend it so? Do you really think that whaling is humane, just, healthy, moral,
sustainable, financially profitable?
Does the end justify the means?

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

So what are you saying here? Premeditated killing is somehow better than hunting in the wild? Who for?
I've already demonstrated quite clearly that the numbers of whales being hunted are a fraction of 1% - no matter whose figures you use for population numbers. It's not VERY significant at all - unless you are emotionally against the concept of whaling. There's no real argument based on numbers.

No - the topic of the thread is an accusation that the Japanese intentionally fired on the Sea Shepherd people. It's completely unproven, and highly suspect. If you have any more evidence to support the claims that no-one seems to believe except for Sea Shepherd supporters than please....post it.

Paul Watson has a history of outright lying, twisting the facts, dis-information - all in the name of his cause. It's his self-declared modus operandi as Dennis posted earlier in this thread:
[/I][/COLOR]

Right now, according to all the reports I've read, that appears to be exactly the same again. He probably doesn't care though, as he still got publicity....which is what he's after.

Actually, if you would quote me accurately, you would see that I specifically said that farming the chickens or "premeditated killing" as you put it, is not better.

"No, I am not saying that farming chickens is better, I'm simply comparing numbers."

And as far as staying on topic is concerned, right now we are talking about rights and wrongs about the killing of whales. The quote by Geoff_H that I was responding to makes it sound like I am only focused on whales and don't care about the other cases he mentioned. At least that's how I read it. My point is that right now the topic being discussed is whales and I've never said that my only focus is whales.

"If you think whales are too intelligent to be killed (never seen any evidence of that myself) then I think you should focus your attention on the bush meat trade in Africa... many more monkeys are killed each year than whales. Or how about the Koreans and Chinese who eat man's best friend, dogs? Or French who eat highly sensitive and intelligent horses?" - Geoff_H

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

I've lived in both China and Japan for several years each, and am pretty familiar with both Chinese and Japanese food - to the general detriment of my waistline! I've eaten both shark fin soup and whale, though I enjoyed neither and now boycott both.

I've also spent a lot of time in Japanese ports and costal areas (through my diving) and have seen dolphin slaughter first hand in Futo.

I would be very surprised if those documentaries showed what you think they did... do you have any links to a synopsis or outline of them?

As I said, I plan on watching the video I've been talking about and making sure that I am, in fact, correct. If I'm mistaken then I have no problem admitting it but I've seen that video so many times that I'm pretty sure I'm right about who is depicted in the video shark-finning.

Also, you are all saying that shark-fin soup is a Chinese dish. Does that matter? That doesn't mean that only Chinese do the finning. Several countries have participated in finning.

Taiwan
Ecuador and Costa Rica
Indonesia

 

[SDAnderson]

Originally Posted by cdreamer
Mr. "I don't eat it because I don't need to and it's not my culture."




Kim,
Why would YOU consider YOUR own words to be a personal attack?
Maybe because your mixed message is a little confusing and hypocritical?
If the Japanese culture is not "your culture" then why do you support and
defend it so? Do you really think that whaling is humane, just, healthy, moral,
sustainable, financially profitable?
Does the end justify the means?

If you approached this conversation less as a debate to be won and more as an opportunity to convince a friend, you might find yourself being more effective...

As to the ends justifying the means, isn't that a test that should be applied to the tactics of the Sea Shepherd? Does their goal excuse their violent tactics?

 

[D_B]

... The road to *ell is paved by good intensions ... and all that

 

[cdreamer]

If you approached this conversation less as a debate to be won and more as an opportunity to convince a friend, you might find yourself being more effective...

As to the ends justifying the means, isn't that a test that should be applied to the tactics of the Sea Shepherd? Does their goal excuse their violent tactics?

Sea Shepherd hasn't hurt anyone, so yes, the end does justify the means.
I wouldn't call stink bombs, harassment and instigation violent. What is violent
are flash grenades and bullets and let's not forget that the Japanese rammed SS
last year. Provoking someone to violence and committing it are two different things.

 

[Tigerman]

Sea Shepherd hasn't hurt anyone, so yes, the end does justify the means.
I wouldn't call stink bombs, harassment and instigation violent. What is violent
are flash grenades and bullets and let's not forget that the Japanese rammed SS
last year. Provoking someone to violence and committing it are two different things.

Its because of people like you there is war in the world

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Can you explain what you mean Tigerman?

 

[Flightlead]

The boats looked around 50 metres apart on the video clip - I think thats well beyond the accurate range of most handguns even with both the shooter and target stationary.

not a chance. I regularly knock down basketball sized targets at 100 yards firing offhand with iron sights. at 50 yards the target is a little bigger than a grapefruit. that's not the extent of the accuracy but the size of the (irregularly shaped) target which doesn't have rings on it.

 

[wardric]

Originally Posted by cdreamer
Mr. "I don't eat it because I don't need to and it's not my culture."




Kim,
Why would YOU consider YOUR own words to be a personal attack?
Maybe because your mixed message is a little confusing and hypocritical?
If the Japanese culture is not "your culture" then why do you support and
defend it so? Do you really think that whaling is humane, just, healthy, moral,
sustainable, financially profitable?
Does the end justify the means?

humane? depends on the method

just? Life and nature isn't fair

healthy? from what point. quality of the meat? I dont know. I'd need serious studies to comment on that

moral? we need to kill to eat. nothing immoral with that

sustainable? for some species yes. for some no

financialy profitable? I dont have a clue. but I guess japanese, which are even more capitalists than americans, would not hunt whale if it was not profitable financially.

the "means" in that case only gets the end farther