Japanese open fire on Sea Shepherd crew

[wardric]

I can understand that you don't like it.

Unnecessary? That's a matter of opinion really. It could be argued that eating most of the things we do is unnecessary. Do we really need the factory farms full of chickens, cattle, pigs....whatever? It always amazes me that people accept the systematic breeding of animals, sometimes in really harsh conditions, for slaughter - they don't want to lose their steaks, pork chops, chicken wings etc - but when someone hunts a tiny percentage of an animal that occurs in the wild they get all "righteous".

I'm sorry - I see that as a clear double standard.

Do you need to be intelligent to feel pain? Is throwing a live lobster into boiling water somehow morally better than killing a whale? Or killing ANYTHING because we want to eat it, and sometimes even prolonging it's death because it tastes better like that - like veal?

I always prefer to kill what I eat myself. It's harder and not often possible in modern life but I feel less hypocrit when I do.

 

[Kim]

Catagory 4...isn't that by catch?

I don't think so - it's a list of the approved codes to identify what has been caught in the marketplace. I think they made 4 pages out of it as one page would have been too big to post efficiently on the Net.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

I love your sig lines Naturediver. Lots of wisdom in them.

By being part of nature, I accept I am part of nature's life cycle, that I will have to kill a living being if i want to survive because I cannot do photosynthesis or eat minerals. Every life form is sacred whether it's a whale or a brocoli, a pig or a carrot. Each must have our respect and none must be wasted. But choosing what we kill based on unlogical criterias (intelligence, cuddlyness) is putting ourselves over nature. It's acting as wannabe gods.

I agree that eating animals is a part of being in the natural cycle and being a carnivore, that's why I'm not vegan. My point is, it is not necessary to kill whales to survive. I don't like any kind of hunting actually for that very reason. I think it's disgraceful to sport hunt, especially those who don't even eat the kill, they just stuff it and hang it on the wall.

I agree that every life form is valuable and none must be wasted. Again, nobody needs to hunt whales. Whales are a part of the natural balance. They eat massive amounts of food because there is a balance and there aren't that many of them. Killing them needlessly IS wasting them.

How does this mean humans are acting as wannabe gods? I personally see that killing anything at anytime without necessity is more like putting ourselves over nature.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

I can understand that you don't like it.

Unnecessary? That's a matter of opinion really. It could be argued that eating most of the things we do is unnecessary. Do we really need the factory farms full of chickens, cattle, pigs....whatever? It always amazes me that people accept the systematic breeding of animals, sometimes in really harsh conditions, for slaughter - they don't want to lose their steaks, pork chops, chicken wings etc - but when someone hunts a tiny percentage of an animal that occurs in the wild they get all "righteous".

I'm sorry - I see that as a clear double standard.

Do you need to be intelligent to feel pain? Is throwing a live lobster into boiling water somehow morally better than killing a whale? Or killing ANYTHING because we want to eat it, and sometimes even prolonging it's death because it tastes better like that - like veal?

I agree about unnecessary killing. Don't get me started on livestock factory farms. I don't accept the systematic breeding of animals for slaughter. I hate it. My wife and I have completely given up fast food in the last year because we learned so much about the industry. We barely eat meat anymore. Please don't lump me into this hypocritic group of people you speak of without knowing that I am in fact in that group.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Just so we are clear, this was an attempted assassination.

Jeff

 

[wardric]

I agree that eating animals is a part of being in the natural cycle and being a carnivore, that's why I'm not vegan. My point is, it is not necessary to kill whales to survive. I don't like any kind of hunting actually for that very reason. I think it's disgraceful to sport hunt, especially those who don't even eat the kill, they just stuff it and hang it on the wall.

I agree that every life form is valuable and none must be wasted. Again, nobody needs to hunt whales. Whales are a part of the natural balance. They eat massive amounts of food because there is a balance and there aren't that many of them. Killing them needlessly IS wasting them.

How does this mean humans are acting as wannabe gods? I personally see that killing anything at anytime without necessity is more like putting ourselves over nature.

I agree with your last paragraph

How do you kill if not by hunting/fishing/gathering? farming? is farming/cattling more acceptable? I like hunting fishing and gathering. When I do, I feel one with nature. I kill what I eat and eat what I kill, use the fur/skin for multiple use and have a nice deer head hanging on my wall (why would I waste it?). Some tribes in amazonia keep the heads of their ennemies on their wall too as respect for a worthy opponent.

It's not necessary to kill anything to survive then. We dont have to kill pigs, we have cows. Not cows, we have horse, not horse we have deers, etc. Vegans will say we dont need to kill animals since we can eat only veggies. I know you dont agree with that either.

point is, we need to kill something. why should we discriminate based on anthropomorphic criterias? That is what I call acting as gods. If I dont like whale meat and would waste it, I would not kill a whale. Same thing with deer, pigs or cauliflowers. IMHO

 

[wardric]

I agree about unnecessary killing. Don't get me started on livestock factory farms. I don't accept the systematic breeding of animals for slaughter. I hate it. My wife and I have completely given up fast food in the last year because we learned so much about the industry. We barely eat meat anymore. Please don't lump me into this hypocritic group of people you speak of without knowing that I am in fact in that group.

you should start hunting your own meat. much healthier than raised one

 

[Kim]

Please don't lump me into this hypocritic group of people you speak of without knowing that I am in fact in that group.

Actually I wasn't. For all I know you could be vegetarian.

My point wasn't personal or aimed at you - it was general. IMO, by FAR the most people who complain that the Japanese eat whale, themselves eat all manner of things without thinking twice about it. And I agree with you - it's extremely hypocritical.

Personally I don't think that anyone really has much right to dictate things like that to others, and that the best we can do is decide for ourselves how we want to live.

It often helps to actually know the facts as well. Rising sea temperatures are decimating the Antarctica krill populations. This is killing many, many more whales through starvation than the Japanese are hunting. Part of their research is exactly to do with tracking this - that's why they are analyzing stomach contents. Considering that the cause of this is global warming, maybe the real probleem isn't whether the Japanese want to continue to eat whale or not.

 

[Kim]

Just so we are clear, this was an attempted assassination.

Jeff

I don't think that is proven by a very long way. By all accounts it probably wasn't even a bullet.

 

[Geoff_H]

Obviously this is not only Japan but Japan is FAR from being among the best at maintaining marine resources.

You're confusing China with Japan. I've never seen shark finning in Japan, or dishes based on shark fins for sale in Japan. Two very different countries... not sure how seriously we can take your input in this conversation if you've got misconceptions this big to start with.