I’ve read it all and still need opinions on computers

[scubadada]

Yes those are the kind of replies I’m looking for. I looked up the deep 6, nice price point but couldn’t find any other reviews on it or where it’s made. The LDS is not pushing me to try and upsell the more expensive computer, they carry aqualung so that’s what they are trying to sell. Hearing that two of them in a row were defective among reviews on Amazon make me skeptical about buying that brand. However, I thought the Pelagic brand (maker of the aqualung) was a solid company? The shearwater definitely has my attention, but in the end those are going to be too large for me to want to buy.

The originator computer is the Crest CR-4, rebranded as the Genesis Centauri and the Deep 6 Excursion. It is manufactured in Taiwan. It appears to be a solid computer. It has 3 presets, no custom GF. It handles deco in an unusal manner, you can read about it in the manual or there is a thread on SB.

The Atmos Mission One is also manufactured in Taiwan. It has custom GFs and handles deco traditionally.

See Are Pressure Transmitters compatible across brands? regarding Pelagic Pressure Systems transmitters and other branded transmitters. Aqua Lung bought Pelagic Pressure Systems in May 2015.

Some of us are hoping that Shearwater will come out with a Peregrine AI someday. I already dive a Teric, off the same transmittter as my Oceanic VT3

 

[tursiops]

All the Aqua Lung computers run the PZ+ deco algorithm. Oceanic computers run both PZ+ and DSAT. PZ+ is generally considered a moderate or middle of the road algorithm on the conservative to liberal scale. DSAT is generally considered to be liberal.

Though imperfect, PZ+ is approximately like running Buhlmann at a GF high of around 85. DSAT is more like running Buhlmann at a GF high of around 95. If one wants maximum flexibility, a computer running Buhlmann with custom GFs allows the most adjustment.

This is a useful post. Yes, both AL and Oceanic computers are ultimately made by PPS, but I get the feeling the Oceanic computers are more reliable, have both algorithms, and better customer service....although that may just be the shops the carry them.
Oceanic carries essentially the same devices AL sells, but they have been doing it longer, and may have better QC. Take a look at the Geo 4.0, for non-AI. The OCi has AI but not BT; it is being discounted right now so I'm guessing a BT version will be out soon.
One other thing: just like with fitness equipment and dishwashers, there are certain times of the year when dive computer prices are best because of sales. Black Friday is a good example.

Not sure what you mean by “conflicting priorities”? I never used the word “cheap” in my priority list, I did say money is an object as I will be buying two of them. I am looking for a reliable, Bluetooth, wristwatch sized, possible air integration, not made in China, 500$ or less budget. Do you find that impractical or conflicting? Serious question. I will admit, this is not very easy and I may be guilty of over analyzing this purchase. I do want to get it right, though. Again, thanks for any and all feedback.

Any time you have more than one criterion, there is danger of conflict between/among them.
You want to keep the price down (I used "cheap" to paraphrase that, sorry.). OK. That is an immediate limitation. Not made in China is in conflict with keeping the price down, and so on. You can't have it all, so you have to decide what is necessary and what is just nice-to-have. Sorry, that's the game you are in.
People have suggested used. Good way to save money, but bad way to assure reliability (except with a few expensive units) and bad way to get a lot of choice if BT is "necessary."
Possible AI raises the price again, even if you never buy a transmitter.
Only you can decide on these relative priorities. You can't have it all. Some are conflicting.

 

[Grateful head]

This is a useful post. Yes, both AL and Oceanic computers are ultimately made by PPS, but I get the feeling the Oceanic computers are more reliable, have both algorithms, and better customer service....although that may just be the shops the carry them.
Oceanic carries essentially the same devices AL sells, but they have been doing it longer, and may have better QC. Take a look at the Geo 4.0, for non-AI. The OCi has AI but not BT; it is being discounted right now so I'm guessing a BT version will be out soon.
One other thing: just like with fitness equipment and dishwashers, there are certain times of the year when dive computer prices are best because of sales. Black Friday is a good example.



Any time you have more than one criterion, there is danger of conflict between/among them.
You want to keep the price down (I used "cheap" to paraphrase that, sorry.). OK. That is an immediate limitation. Not made in China is in conflict with keeping the price down, and so on. You can't have it all, so you have to decide what is necessary and what is just nice-to-have. Sorry, that's the game you are in.
People have suggested used. Good way to save money, but bad way to assure reliability (except with a few expensive units) and bad way to get a lot of choice if BT is "necessary."
Possible AI raises the price again, even if you never buy a transmitter.
Only you can decide on these relative priorities. You can't have it all. Some are conflicting.

Yes I guess you are right to an extent. Reliability and made in China is definitely a conflict. Priorities are 1) not made in China 2) reliability. Your right, the rest are relative priorities. Keeps bringing me back to the aqualung 470. Anyone have firsthand experience with it?

 

[drrich2]

Reliability and made in China is definitely a conflict.

Quick insert without getting too political. In another discussion someone pointed out that the Chinese can build to whatever spec. you want. American companies often turn to China for cheap goods, and since that's what's asked for, that's what's produced. But then we've got the Apple iPhone. Apple uses Chinese sources at least in part because that's where they can get the manufacturing expertise they need. And yes, it's still cheap labor, but the bottom line is, 'Made in China' does not automatically equal 'Poor Quality.'

If someone doesn't want to buy products manufacturing in China for some political reason, or similar, okay. Of course, I imagine a lot of the parts used are made in China whether it's assembled in the U.S. or not.

 

[Ryan Neely]

My LDS is an Aqualung dealer. I've seen the 450 in a display case at the shop but I don't know anyone who dives with them diving that computer. The most common wrist-mounted device I see from them is the 750. Otherwise, for AI they sell a lot of the Oceanic ProPlus consoles. Those aren't wrist mounted.

Maybe that speaks to the efficacy of the 450. Maybe it doesn't. There is too little data to reconcile that.

However, based on what I've read here it really sounds like you've made your decision already and are seeking confirmation bias to alleviate any possible lingering doubt over an expensive purchase.

I can totally relate to that. However, at the price point you're looking at, unless you're willing to purchase previously owned equipment, there probably isn't much more to consider.

My suggestion would be to pull the trigger and buy the Aqualung and be happy with that. I'm sure it will serve you well. It might not be a Teric or a Perdix, but if it were that terrible of a computer for the average recreational diver, Aqualung wouldn't be selling it.

The alternative would be to find the computer of your dreams and budget to purchase it in a year or two (so long as your current setup still functions).

I do agree with others, though, that if your LDS isn't willing or capable of having an honest discussion about your needs (or, for whatever reason, you can't trust that they aren't just trying to sell you stuff), it doesn't hurt to branch out to other dive shops.

I love my LDS, but they don't carry half of the dive gear I dive with. It's an unfortunate reality, but one we all have to live with. Buy what is right for you and your style of diving.

 

[Grateful head]

Quick insert without getting too political. In another discussion someone pointed out that the Chinese can build to whatever spec. you want. American companies often turn to China for cheap goods, and since that's what's asked for, that's what's produced. But then we've got the Apple iPhone. Apple uses Chinese sources at least in part because that's where they can get the manufacturing expertise they need. And yes, it's still cheap labor, but the bottom line is, 'Made in China' does not automatically equal 'Poor Quality.'

If someone doesn't want to buy products manufacturing in China for some political reason, or similar, okay. Of course, I imagine a lot of the parts used are made in China whether it's assembled in the U.S. or not.

Yes without getting too political, I have no doubt the Chinese are more than capable of engineering, designing, building a quality product. However., the vast majority of products made in China are junk. Thru a friend of a friend of a friend, when U.S. companies take a product to China, they receive an excellent, quality built prototype of said product. Once the contract is signed to produce said product, Chinese company then lessens quality of product to gain more profit. Cheating. I also have no doubt that some American companies want the product built as cheaply as possible to maximize profits. Then there is the whole China stealing billions of dollars a year of intellectual property from other countries. Cheating. Add in Covid.... yes me personally, I am done. I apologize if I went on a rant, feel very strongly about it.

 

[Grateful head]

My LDS is an Aqualung dealer. I've seen the 450 in a display case at the shop but I don't know anyone who dives with them diving that computer. The most common wrist-mounted device I see from them is the 750. Otherwise, for AI they sell a lot of the Oceanic ProPlus consoles. Those aren't wrist mounted.

Maybe that speaks to the efficacy of the 450. Maybe it doesn't. There is too little data to reconcile that.

However, based on what I've read here it really sounds like you've made your decision already and are seeking confirmation bias to alleviate any possible lingering doubt over an expensive purchase.

I can totally relate to that. However, at the price point you're looking at, unless you're willing to purchase previously owned equipment, there probably isn't much more to consider.

My suggestion would be to pull the trigger and buy the Aqualung and be happy with that. I'm sure it will serve you well. It might not be a Teric or a Perdix, but if it were that terrible of a computer for the average recreational diver, Aqualung wouldn't be selling it.

The alternative would be to find the computer of your dreams and budget to purchase it in a year or two (so long as your current setup still functions).

I do agree with others, though, that if your LDS isn't willing or capable of having an honest discussion about your needs (or, for whatever reason, you can't trust that they aren't just trying to sell you stuff), it doesn't hurt to branch out to other dive shops.

I love my LDS, but they don't carry half of the dive gear I dive with. It's an unfortunate reality, but one we all have to live with. Buy what is right for you and your style of diving.

I sort of have my mind made up but I am definitely open to more opinions and ideas. I already learned about some things in this short thread that I did not know about before.

 

[runsongas]

get the shearwater peregrine, could be the last dive computer you need to buy (unless if you decide to spend more money on AI later on or upgrade to a perdix/teric for trimix/ccr). i have 2 air integrated oceanic VT computers and don't use either since I got a petrel. the screen and interface is just that much better.

 

[scubadada]

Yes without getting too political, I have no doubt the Chinese are more than capable of engineering, designing, building a quality product. However., the vast majority of products made in China are junk. Thru a friend of a friend of a friend, when U.S. companies take a product to China, they receive an excellent, quality built prototype of said product. Once the contract is signed to produce said product, Chinese company then lessens quality of product to gain more profit. Cheating. I also have no doubt that some American companies want the product built as cheaply as possible to maximize profits. Then there is the whole China stealing billions of dollars a year of intellectual property from other countries. Cheating. Add in Covid.... yes me personally, I am done. I apologize if I went on a rant, feel very strongly about it.

I am not going to argue the content of your post.

The Atmos Mission One and the Crest CR-4/Genesis Centauri/Deep 6 Excursion are manufactured in Taiwan, the Republic of China (ROC), and not in China, the People's Republic of China (PRC). Do you simply lump them together, as China?

At your request, many of us have tried to offer useful information. Take it or leave it, enjoy your new computer

 

[Grateful head]

I am not going to argue the content of your post.

The Atmos Mission One and the Crest CR-4/Genesis Centauri/Deep 6 Excursion are manufactured in Taiwan, the Republic of China (ROC), and not in China, the People's Republic of China (PRC). Do you simply lump them together, as China?

At your request, many of us have tried to offer useful information. Take it or leave it, enjoy your new computer

I know the difference between China and Taiwan. I read somewhere earlier today that the mission one is designed in Taiwan and built in China (PRC) I cannot confirm this though as I never put my eyes on the product to see where it is actually made.