I've had it with wireless air integration

[doctormike]

If you want one of "those" computers, any hoseless air integrated dive computer manufactured by AUP will do.

Thank you for using the correct term...

 

[agilis]

The correct term is hoseless, because what is being replaced is a hose. NOT a wire.

Any term that ends in -less means that the thing that comes before it was eliminated. So a wireless mic is wireless because you are replacing a wire (the cable) with a transmitter and receiver. A cordless phone is cordless because you are replacing the handset cord with a transmitter and receiver. A horseless carriage is horseless because you are replacing a horse with an engine.

Pressure data is transmitted to an SPG or to a console AI computer by a hose, not a wire. The data is not electrical data, it is pressure data, specifically the gas pressure in the HP port of the first stage, which is transmitted to the SPG or the console AI via a HP hose. If you are not sure about this, you can cut an old HP hose in half and you will not find a wire in it.

There is no wire connection in any pressure measuring device between the gas source and the pressure measuring sensor.

---------- Post added February 20th, 2014 at 02:44 PM ----------



Well, duh!

But seriously, see my response to agilis. I don't think that my etymology is quite as distant as your example. I do agree, that the vast majority of people use the term wireless (incorrectly) to refer to this transmitter-receiver link. This is because the term "wireless" is in the process of evolving from a specific definition to a more general one, meaning any sort of transmitter-receiver link.



Totally agree!

You seem to have fixed on horseless carriage as a definitive exemplar of neologistic word construction. It is not. Just think of all those propellorless aircraft and painless dentists. It may have been a thoughtless error, but your paragraph beginning " Pressure data is transmitted to an SPG..." seems to suggest that I was under the misapprehension that HP hoses had wires in them. A witless conclusion.

This may have been due to a careless misreading of my comment that began "Their direct analogs...". Hard wired pressure reading devices on most manufacturing machinery are analogous to the wireless electronic air integrated scuba computers in virtually every respect, except that A/I scuba computers use wireless transmission because of the environment within which they are employed. Otherwise, I cannot explain your senseless inference.

Air integrated scuba computers and mechanical SPGs are as fundamentally different as gasoline powered conveyances and horse-drawn buggies. They do not share any significant technology and have very little in common other than their very general purpose. I have disassembled quite a few SPGs and am clear on the direct mode of transmission from a source of pressure to the gauge which presents a graduated analog representation of that force. I'm also familiar with the process through which pressure sensors in various industrial applications electronically transmit data to a variety of measuring instruments.

Wireless, not hoseless, is technically correct. It is the entire technology that differs between SPGs and A/I computers. There is far more than the simple replacement of a hose with a transmitter involved. Something much closer to a sea-change has occurred.

I am not heedless of the similar functions each performs. In this case, as in the case of horses and internal combustion engines, it is the essential nature of the technology and not the several purposes to which it is put that is definitive.

On a more positive note, I was greatly amused by your 'air integrated consoles' reference. I don't think I've seen a console in use by an experienced diver in quite a few years.

 

[drinksfromtap]

Out of curiosity, were air-integrated dive computer consoles developed before ones that rely on a wireless link to transmit pressure information, or were they developed simultaneously?

 

[divad]

Just had a silly thought...

If the position of the transmitter and the wrist mounted watch can be interfered with, I wonder what would happen if the transmitter were mounted on a short hose and velcro/strap/clipped to the front shoulder of the BCD?

Similarly, what would happen if you attached a large polish sausage to the side of your head?

 

[Peter69_56]

Whenever this topic comes up, we always get a lot of posts from divers who say things like "I have NEVER had a problem with my wireless AI, so I feel that there is no problem with anyone using it".

Let's assume the failure rate of wireless air integrated computer is, say, 20%. That would be ridiculously high and unacceptable, but assume the worst for this thought experiment. Also assume that it's a failure rate per unit, not per dive (that is, if you get one of the bad ones it will fail regularly, but if you get a good one it will work whenever you dive it).

That means that the vast majority of posts (80%) are going to be people who have never had problems with their transmitters, swear by them, and feel that an analog SPG is unnecessary.

Now, I don't actually know the failure rate of analog SPGs, and that would be good information to have. But I would be very surprised to learn that it was actually higher than the failure rate of wireless AI. Of course, I am always open to learning new things!

Mike

I have either SPG or air integrated computer, never used wireless and never to date had a failure. Did however see a guy turn on his air and blow the end from the air integration unit. That was the end of his dive trip due to no spares, no SPG and tables. Think I will stick to Petrel, SPG and integrated ProPlus. Worst thing I have had happen is a leaking HP hose which is generally replaceable (as I take a spare), but if not liveable in the short term. Also for those who are visually limited like me, the ProPlus 2 has a huge face thus easy to read. Petrel face is good too, having used both the Liquivision and Petrel, the Petrel is so much easier to read whether in water or in full sun. That's my preference.

 

[Divenomad]

Air integrated computers with a hose were successfully engineered and came to market first.

Out of curiosity, were air-integrated dive computer consoles developed before ones that rely on a wireless link to transmit pressure information, or were they developed simultaneously?

 

[agilis]

Out of curiosity, were air-integrated dive computer consoles developed before ones that rely on a wireless link to transmit pressure information, or were they developed simultaneously?

A console is just a big piece of plastic that holds several gauges. An 'air integrated console' is a pretty silly term. it means a big piece of plastic that has an SPG and at least one other gauge, typically two others; a depth gauge and a compass. All operate completely independently; they are just all attached to the same thing, called a console. Many experienced divers these days avoid these large clusters, opting for for a wrist mount computer, an SPG clipped off to prevent it from dragging, and if a compass is used it is often clipped on a small reel attachéd to the BC, or also wrist mounted. I use both a wrist mount computer and a wrist mount depth gauge, with a compact SPG.

Consoles are about as low tech as can be, and were around in the 50s. Some older ones had bottom timers. A/I wireless computers are much more recent, and still undergoing teething pains. That's why so many people with A/I wireless computers use an SPG backup. There is no such thing as a hoseless SPG unless you are halfway through disassembling one.

 

[scubadada]

I dived a hosed AI console between 2001 and 2010. Mine were Oceanic Pro Plus and then Pro Plus 2, these were great units and not the archaic monsters agilis describes. My family still dives and loves them.

 

[divad]

My Dad still has my parents old Zenith stereo console in the living room only because it still looks retro-stylish and neither of us have the gumption to to lug it to the garbage.

 

[tridacna]

Like I said, not a specialist or a physicist, and I have no idea what "solve GUT" means

Rather than type a monstrous reply, I will let our friends at WIKI do the work for me.

Grand Unified Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kinda like AUP are all really just one grand unified company. (GUC).

So are you suggesting that other manufacturers use something other than the AUP model? I am keen to hear how they do that. I trust that they are not infringing on AUP patents so it can't be magnetism. Waaaaiiit a sec! Could it be plain old wireless (POW).:shocked2: Oh well...down the snake we go.

---------- Post added February 20th, 2014 at 08:23 PM ----------

This could get me banned but where oh where is Thalassamania when you need him? raying:

Some threads are just not the same without him.