I've decided to get a Pony Bottle; which one...?

[mempilot]

Don,

Why not just dive with a larger supply on your back. For instance, a HP 100 is about the same size as an AL80. You could put an h-valve on it and have redundant first stages as well with no added equipment to manage. Heck, you could even drop some weight from your belt.

I went to LP98's with h's a while back and I'm streamlined as I ever was. If I need the gas, I have it.

 

[scubafanatic]

Hi DandyDon,

I can sympathize with your 'position' on ponys, and your 'position' on diving with your own gear configuration as you see fit...I too can be a bit stubborn when it comes to my own configuration, as it seems that other divers/shops often think I have too much gear ......mainly it comes from 'rec' divers/shops that pretty much run, screaming off into the woods, at the sight of , god-forbid, the dreaded 'doubles'...or a cannister-light!

I sometimes am forced to dive solo, as I have no 'regular' buddies......or dive with whoever else shows up at lake/boat 'buddyless'......so I do whatever it takes to position myself to be a self-sufficient diver.

I've never used a pony (did use a 100% O2 deco AL30 or AL40 bottle during Deco/Advanced Nitrox class though) and have debated the pros/cons of a pony.

For now I've elected to either dive 'small' twinsets (LP 85's/ LP76's---isolation manifolds) or 'large' singles (HP120 / HP130 / LP112--- Y-valves) Both configurations provide reserve air and redundant 1st stages, with the ability to isolate either 1st stage as needed.

Also recently upgraded to a dual-bladder wing (DiveRite Dual Rec Wing), since I dive 'steels' and wetsuits.

I feel this gives me a high level of safety/redundancy.....while at the same time keeping my configuration balanced/streamlined, so for now I've opted 'against' ponys, as I'm already carrying as much or more gas than another diver with the typical AL80 + pony anyway.

I understand there are places (N.E. Atlantic wreck diving charters and 'recreational' dive sites like Cozumel come to mind) where ponys are either required, or are the only way to 'bolt-on' any extra redundancy......so I'm not 'against' ponys, but for my needs use of a pony is a 'second-rate' solution for whenever I can't use doubles/large singles with Y-valves.

Karl

 

[mempilot]

My post from another related thread:

"If you're going to do it, carry it as a sling so it is accessible and removeable. If you end up going on to decompression training, then you will already be ahead of the game. An AL40 makes a good sling bottle. The capacity, length, and boyancy make it a good choice."

Accessible and removeable are important. Slinging it under your left arm will lower the risk of serious entanglement.

 

[DandyDon]

I had hoped that the way I opened this thread, that we could have a discussion of "I am getting one, so which?" rather than getting off on whether I should get one, preferring that anyone who wanted to discuss that, especially in the negative, could do so on other threads. But I guess the temptation was too great, given the subject...

Don,

Why not just dive with a larger supply on your back. For instance, a HP 100 is about the same size as an AL80. You could put an h-valve on it and have redundant first stages as well with no added equipment to manage. Heck, you could even drop some weight from your belt.

I went to LP98's with h's a while back and I'm streamlined as I ever was. If I need the gas, I have it.

Sure, I'll be in San Pedro, Ambergis Caye, Belize next week. Where do I get 3 a day? :frlol: Can I get 6 a day? I guess I could buy a few and ship them ahead on every trip, eh? :lol:

No, when I can rent a few 100s, I usually give them to the Hoovers I'm diving with, to offset their needs. But what if my first state fails again? Even a 120 won't help much then, huh?

My post from another related thread:

"If you're going to do it, carry it as a sling so it is accessible and removeable. If you end up going on to decompression training, then you will already be ahead of the game. An AL40 makes a good sling bottle. The capacity, length, and boyancy make it a good choice."

Accessible and removeable are important. Slinging it under your left arm will lower the risk of serious entanglement.

Any my answer the last time someon said this (no, not you, it was a lady in a different thread) was: Is this where you wear yours, or are you giving advice you don't use? I wear a pony on my back for my personal needs, including helping others albeit with tools under my control, not so I can hand it off. Again, this is an idea that could work well on a team, but with my experiences of diving with strangers, I want to stay in control of my Pony.

I can see it now: I hand off a $300+ Pony system to a diver, he drops it on the Safety Stop, it sinks into the abyss, and on the boat he says: "Sorry about your bottle, bud; guess you shouldn't haven't given it to me. It wasn't my request, though, so your loss, (sucker)." Or, "Thanks for the help; sorry I dropped it; I'll mail you some money when I can afford it." Sure he will. Got Ocean front property for sale, too, New Mexico, Colordo, Utah, your pick.

Yep, but while I am going to respect the skills of those who can dive better than me with less tools, I'm still going to use my Pony and my two computers to make my amateur diving safer, politely ignoring those who tell me I need neither. They won't be there to explain my injury/death to my family...

Thought about this some more. Next week, I'm diving with a local friend, a multi-card Hoover newbie. A week later, I look forward to having lunch with him and his mom, 'cause I'll have the tools to take care of him when he needs help - rather than meeting his mom at a hospital or funeral home 'cause I didn't.

 

[OE2X]

I had hoped that the way I opened this thread, that we could have a discussion of "I am getting one, so which?" rather than getting off on whether I should get one, preferring that anyone who wanted to discuss that, especially in the negative, could do so on other threads. But I guess the temptation was too great, given the subject...

Well then get a 30 and back mount it since that's what you prefer. You seem to dive with "Hoovers" so a 19 will be too small to get you/them to the surface if you are at 100' or below. If you don't dive and never plan to dive to 100' or deeper then a 19 may work o.k. . Keep in mind that a stressed divers SAC rate will increase thus perhaps making the 19 too small at depth.

Be advised that should you get into deco diving in the future, your 30 will be obsolete and you might then have wished that you had gone with a 40.

The choice is yours...

 

[DandyDon]

Well then get a 30 and back mount it since that's what you prefer. You seem to dive with "Hoovers" so a 19 will be too small to get you/them to the surface if you are at 100' or below. If you don't dive and never plan to dive to 100' or deeper then a 19 may work o.k. . Keep in mind that a stressed divers SAC rate will increase thus perhaps making the 19 too small at depth.

Be advised that should you get into deco diving in the future, your 30 will be obsolete and you might then have wished that you had gone with a 40.

The choice is yours...

Appreciate that input! Thanks!

I use a Pony in part so I can descend below a scheduled MOD if a need arises, so I mine for Air only. Would also hate to breach a O2 ready tank for plane travel. I just might get a 30. I know I can sell my 19 easily enough.

If I ever go into deco diving, I'd want that bottle to be for Nitrox, even if I had to breach it for plane travel, so I may get one of those, too. $100+ here, #100+ there. Same reg, spg, etc. Worthy thoughts...

 

[matt_unique]

Be advised that should you get into deco diving in the future, your 30 will be obsolete and you might then have wished that you had gone with a 40.

The choice is yours...

30's and 40's are used for tech dives depending upon the volume of deco gas you need of course. I like to minimize weight whenever possible even if by small amounts so I use a 30 stage bottle. If weight is not an issue then of course buy the largest bottle you can handle to have the most volume of air.

--Matt

 

[MikeFerrara]

It's simple logic and common sense to have a backup system to life support. I suggested pony size based on depth.

I disagree

To be fair you should also mention examples where divers poorly managed air and had a safe backup to reach the surface or divers who had a primary system failure and were able to grab a reg and reach the surface without problems.

I guess I'm not aware of any.

ANY dives benefit from the backup of a pony system.

Sounds like you think we should strap ponyson new divers right out of the gate. I don't.

Don - you can see there are two schools of thought on pony bottles. There are some dive sites in Massachusetts where the charter company requires every diver to have a pony bottle if not diving doubles. There is a reason for that and it's not with only one shop or charter boat.

That's because they feel the dives are beyond the capability of standard recreational equipment. I probably wouldn't disagree. It seems common for divers who are diving beyond their limits or the limits of their equipment to feel the need for a pony bottle.

The next reply from pony detractors would no doubt be that you "should" be diving with doubles without acknowleding or understanding the benefit of a pony for dives where the gas volume and weight of equipment does not call for doubles.

--Matt

On one hand you're saying that the dive calls for redundancy and on the other that it doesn't call for doubles. I guess this is some kind of dive in a grey area that I haven't come accross yet. What a pony lacks in weight it makes up for in slop and complexity especially the way most divers use them.

While doubles are heavier the redundancy is there on the entire gas volume making it useful for more than a direct dash for the surface. There are still only two second stages and one spg. The whole thing is back mounted in a way that doesn't add to the snag hazard and yet by virtue of the fact that it is backmounted is less unfamiliar than adding slung bottles.

I've even seen divers double up little 40 or 50 cu ft tanks for a sleek compact rig that I'd take hands down over any of the conglomerations that I've seen with pony's

 

[DandyDon]

BTW, my current routine for safety checks of equipment includes:

(1) Daily: After both regs are set up on their respective tanks, but the tanks still turned off, I'll rinse any disinfectent off of all 3 second stages, put them in my mouth one by one, and test for breathing. None should allow any intake, of course; I'm checking for inleaks.

Thereafter, for each new tank:

(2) I'll open the valves on both tanks, to ckeck psi, and I do have a spg on my console for my main tank, as well as a tiny spg on the first stage for my Pony.

(3) I then close both valves until predive checks. This tests for outleaks anywhere on the system. I should still have 3,000# on each 10 min to 2 hours later.

(4) Before predive, I turn both on, take 2 deep breaths off of each of the second stages for my main tank & reg, and 4 from my Pony. This ensures that all are working well, and that I didn't skip the turn on step, as I know that neither of my Regs will pass 4 breaths unless on.

(5) On predive, I'll ask whoever is checking me to ensure I have both tanks fully open.

 

[Uncle Pug]

(5) On predive, I'll ask whoever is checking me to ensure I have both tanks fully open.

That's the one that will end up getting you Don.