I've decided to get a Pony Bottle; which one...?

[DandyDon]

Don,

What kind of dives are you doing and what makes you feel that you need a pony?

My diving is recreational, no deeper than 130 feet, very little overhead exposure, on reefs, walls, wrecks, kelp beds - as much variety as I can.

I got my first Pony after I had a couple of different Boat-Pick Hoover-Buddies run low while we were still around 80-90 feet, needing to share what I had, and then the same week - having a first stage fail while I was still on the boat.

I've had to use it twice in about 75 dives since, when Hoover buddies needed to share my air to ascend, but the two of us started depleting what I had too fast.

I know a lot of you more experienced and more active divers can manage buddies, equipment, air supplies, etc. better than I can, calculate breathing rates, etc. For a lessor diver like me, though, I feel it's best to base my appoach on how many PSI of a standard 80 I usually need to get two of us up slowly, with 2 one minutes stops and a long safety stop.

I mentioned the small price differences only so - but forgot to say that - people wouldn't interrupt a possilbe discussion with questions of price. The inital cost variance is neglible, with annual costs the same.

 

[alemaozinho]

I use a 30 cf steel pony tank, i use the pony bracket from KOHR systems.I also use an equalizer to fill my pony tank,the tank has about the same measurements as the 19 cf aluminium luxfer ,The KOHR bracket system allows for the easiest attach /detach in the industry,is very durable and you dont have to mount it on every tank cause it,s mounted on the bc tank strap.Peace

 

[matt_unique]

How can you say it's a logical conclusion when he hasn't said anything about the dives that he's doing?

It's totally illogical to assume that a little extra gas is an improvement without examining the effects of more hoses, regs, procedural options and so on have on the overall utility of the equipment configuration?

For instance I haven't ever needed a redundant gas supply on a recreational dive that I would use a single tank for. Yet if I did have a pony I would have had to manage the extra equipment on every single one of those dives.

Recently there was a thread on the board (don't remember which one) where a diver using a slung pony blew a safety/deco stop because the poney interfered with his accessing his deflator. So there are additional skill concerns.

Not long ago I read about a fatality (I think it was a fatality) where a diver simply grabbed the wrong reg and ran out of gas...or so she thought...with all those regs she didn't know which she was breathing...or not breathing as it turned out. The joy of a back mounted pony with a third reg pinned to your chest someplace.

Neither diver needed a pony yet both had problems because of it. I'm sure we could find more like them too.

If you apply logic you'll likely end up with a configuration and procedures that are clean, simple and just about fool proof. Hanging a bunch of discombobilated junk on divers doing dives within the capability of their existing equipment won't get you there.

Don,

What kind of dives are you doing and what makes you feel that you need a pony?

It's simple logic and common sense to have a backup system to life support. I suggested pony size based on depth.

Obviously any piece of gear attached to your system needs to be streamlined and practiced to have value. It's not the least bit difficult to "manage" the gear for a pony. The examples you list above are indicative of very novice divers or divers with bad instructors who don't know how to train and configure proper use of a pony bottle. To be fair you should also mention examples where divers poorly managed air and had a safe backup to reach the surface or divers who had a primary system failure and were able to grab a reg and reach the surface without problems.

ANY dives benefit from the backup of a pony system.

Don - you can see there are two schools of thought on pony bottles. There are some dive sites in Massachusetts where the charter company requires every diver to have a pony bottle if not diving doubles. There is a reason for that and it's not with only one shop or charter boat. The next reply from pony detractors would no doubt be that you "should" be diving with doubles without acknowleding or understanding the benefit of a pony for dives where the gas volume and weight of equipment does not call for doubles.

Phew - this is such a tired argument. Think about worst case scenarios and decide what makes the most sense for you Don.

--Matt

 

[Uncle Pug]

Asteriod!!! Duck!!!

Whew... it was just a bolide.

That was close... I live 6.5 miles North East of Snohomish. Gotta get me some bolide protection.

 

[Boogie711]

Think about worst case scenarios and decide what makes the most sense for you Don.

And then think about team awareness and proper dive planning, and why a piece of equipment should never substitute for proper team work or poor dive skills.

 

[OE2X]

I got my first Pony after I had a couple of different Boat-Pick Hoover-Buddies run low while we were still around 80-90 feet, needing to share what I had, and then the same week - having a first stage fail while I was still on the boat.

I've had to use it twice in about 75 dives since, when Hoover buddies needed to share my air to ascend, but the two of us started depleting what I had too fast.

Don,
While I'm no means all that experienced, the question still comes to mind as to why you were not more aware of your hoover buddies air consumption at 80 - 90 ft? I'm sure there must be extenuating circumstances that you have not made us aware of.

Personally I like a 40 cft slung mount. Less entrapment hazard and easily accessable to get the second stage and charge it. I dive singles with a buddy, so even this is overkill should one of us have an O-ring burst or a first stage go south. I do not carry it to avoid proper gas management techniques.

 

[matt_unique]

And then think about team awareness and proper dive planning, and why a piece of equipment should never substitute for proper team work or poor dive skills.

...and finally reach the conclusion that you should NEVER rely on a buddy for your own safety or consider your buddies gear/air as your own.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Matt... evidently you've never be a part of a real team.

 

[DandyDon]

And then think about team awareness and proper dive planning, and why a piece of equipment should never substitute for proper team work or poor dive skills.

Yeah, right - if I took that approach, I'd never get to dive. I live on the High Desert of West Texas, sneak off on diving trips, dive with whomever I have to, and then carry a Pony to cover my needs. If I had the luxury of a "team" and a properly trained buddy, that'd be nice, but if I avoid diving until I do, I don't dive.

Thanks, but no thanks.

While I'm no means all that experienced, the question still comes to mind as to why you were not more aware of your hoover buddies air consumption at 80 - 90 ft? I'm sure there must be extenuating circumstances that you have not made us aware of.

See above.

...and finally reach the conclusion that you should NEVER rely on a buddy for your own safety or consider your buddies gear/air as your own.

Got that right!

Don - you can see there are two schools of thought on pony bottles.

Yep, but while I am going to respect the skills of those who can dive better than me with less tools, I'm still going to use my Pony and my two computers to make my amateur diving safer, politely ignoring those who tell me I need neither. They won't be there to explain my injury/death to my family...

 

[OE2X]

Yeah, right - if I took that approach, I'd never get to dive. I live on the High Desert of West Texas, sneak off on diving trips, dive with whomever I have to, and then carry a Pony to cover my needs. If I had the luxury of a "team" and a properly trained buddy, that'd be nice, but if I avoid diving until I do, I don't dive.

I've spent a lot of time diving with new people off of boats in foreign places. I've also had buddies with a variety of skill levels. In my pre-dive I always go through hand signals, agree to what our mod will be and at how many bars or psi we turn the dive. It takes just a couple of minutes to do this. We turn the dive based on thirds or NDL. When underwater with someone new we check each others air consumption after the first ten minutes. This gives us an idea of how each of us are doing. I also make sure that I check their air periodically during the rest of the dive. It's just a bit of redundancy that is easy to do.

At many dive resorts the DM will tell you to signal them when you are at 70 bars or 700 psi. While this is fine for some, it places the burden of responsibility solely on the individual diver. If that person gets distracted or believes that since they spent thousands of $$$ to do this trip and they can suck their tank dry, then you and they are asking for trouble.

In all the years of diving I have yet to have an ooa situation. Perhaps I've just been lucky or perhaps my system has worked for both myself and my buddies.